Irenaeus’ theodicy No pain no gain!. Useful ideas ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.’ (Genesis 1:26) ‘How if we had no knowledge of the.

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Presentation transcript:

Irenaeus’ theodicy No pain no gain!

Useful ideas ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.’ (Genesis 1:26) ‘How if we had no knowledge of the contrary, could we have instruction in that which is good’ (Irenaeus in Against Heresies.)

Build morality fast Evil and suffering are a ‘spiritual growth hormone.’

God’s responsibility Human’s created neither fully good or bad, created imperfectly. Evil in the world as a result of their imperfect choices, and to motivate them to do good. God is partly responsible for the evil in the world.

Vardy’s analogy

John Hick’s version

Epistemic distance What evidence might there be of a caring God? What evidence might there be that there isn’t a caring God? Hick concludes that God’s existence is hidden - at a distance from our capacity to know.

Policeman analogy Versus No choice/freedom Morality and free choice

Counterfactual hypothesis What would be the implications for humans if we lived in a paradise without suffering?

The afterlife This world is a ‘vale of soul making’. Heaven is the justification of all the suffering, and we go there when we are developed enough. What questions does this raise or leave unanswered? Innocent victims? Does all suffering develop Humans? Universal salvation?

Evaluating Irenaeus. Universal salvation? How much suffering? – Dostoyevsky in Brothers Karamazov. Contradiction of suffering as an expression of love? - DZ Phillips Can we be free and only choose good? - J. Mackie.