CAO Information Evening 7th November 2018
Agenda Introduction – Changes and Choices The Purpose of the CAO Dates and Deadlines The Application Process The CAO handbook and Course Research The National Framework of Qualifications Order of Preference Restricted Courses Change of Mind The Offer Process Deferral Common Queries Points Entry Requirements Payment Useful resources
Who Am I? Seamus O Doherty – School Guidance Counsellor Meeting each student individually throughout the course of the year Concerns – social, personal or academic Fulfilling potential Leaving Certs also have a year head and we have a meeting each week – also recently carried out an academic review and meeting with each student in relation to their targets etc.
New Grading for Leaving Certificate Pre-2017 Band New Bands 2017 onwards % Mark Higher Points Ordinary Points A1 H1/O1 90-100 100 56 A2/B1 H2/O2 80-89 88 46 B2/B3 H3/03 70-79 77 37 C1/C2 H4/04 60-69 66 28 C3/D1 H5/05 50-59 20 D2/D3 H6/06 40-49 12 E H7/07 30-39 F H8/08 0<30
Does the new scale reward stronger or weaker students? For example a 2016 Leaving Certificate student getting: 2 x Higher Grade C3 = 60 x 2 = 120 + 2 x Higher Grade D2 = 50 x 2 = 100 2x Higher Grade E = 0 Total = 220 points in 2016
Does the new scale reward stronger or weaker students? The same students in 2018 2 x H5 = 56 x 2 = 112 (-8) + 2 x H6 = 46 x 2 = 92 (-8) 2 x H7 = 37 x 2 = 74 (+74) Total = 220 points in 2016 Total = 278 points in 2018
For Better or Worse? You Decide! In contrast a student getting: 2 Higher A1s 2 Higher B1s 2 Higher C1s will get 530 points under the new scale, 10 points LESS than on the old 2016 scale. Regardless of the argument – Get as many as you can and remember you don’t have to use them ALL for your course!
Ever Increasing Change? In 1995, 31 students achived over 600 points In 2017, 633 achieved over 600 points In 1995, 13,616 achieved below 100 points In 2017, 3760 achieved below 100 points We must be getting smarter!! In 20 years – 20 times more people getting a 600 points and above and 4 times less people getting less than 100. We must be getting smarter!!
Bonus Points Honours Maths All students achieving a H6 or higher will have 25 points added to their total score for honours Maths. The Maths grade itself does not change. There are no bonus points for Ordinary level Maths. This is a standard 25 points regardless of the grade achieved. The same points are awarded for an H1 as a H6. There are no bonus points for a H7 in Honours Maths. Grade H7 is NOT accepted for minimum requirements in third level. If Maths is not included in the top six subjects counted, the bonus points are not included.
Ever Increasing Choices? 1977 – 5 colleges with 69 courses 2018 - 49 colleges with 1700+ courses The Internet of things, Cloud computing, Forensic Toxicoilogy, Digital Marketing, Energy Systems, Innovation and Technology, Robotics… to name but a few
What is the CAO? What is the CAO? Central Applications Office based in Galway. What do they do? They process all applications to undergraduate courses in Higher Education Institutions (HEIs). Offers are issued and acceptances are recorded by the CAO (offers are NOT made by the colleges) Ensuring transparency, accountability and fairness in the application process. What do they NOT do? They do not SET the points each year.
Warning to students... Don’t sleepwalk through the CAO process!
Golden Rule....
Choosing Courses Consult your Guidance Counsellor. Discuss your options with family and friends. Details about courses may be found in HEI prospectus and by consulting HEI websites. Questions for School Liaison officers Attendance at Open days – weekends University websites Interest Inventories on careersportal.ie and qualifax.ie You can apply to upto 20 courses! My advice – Keep your options open by choosing an open ended course such as Science, Engineering, Arts, Law – In todays world you will be expected to have a postgraduate qualification – this might involve study of 2 more years at masters level. Secondary Teaching now requires 2 years Postgraduate study.
What do recruiters want from a students degree? GradIreland – Irelands official graduate jobs and careers website “40% of graduate employers are recruiting from ANY discipline” High degree attainment i.e. High 1st and 2nd Class Honours – Averages of <60% is KEY to progress. Engineering firms looking at accountant graduates and vice versa Transferrable skills and soft skills valued I show Post grad requirements to students in class and they are shocked when they see that 1:1 and 2:1 are the requirement
University Grading System 70.00 - 100.00 First Class Honours 66.00 - 69.99 Upper Second Class (2.1) Honors 60.00 - 65.99 50.00 - 59.99 Lower Second Class (2.2) Honors 45.00 - 49.99 Class 3 Honors/Pass 40.00 - 44.99 0.00 - 39.99 Fail
Choosing Courses – My experience Do the research - know what subjects you will be studying in your 1st Year Points patterns – understand why points are high/low Computer Science – NUI Galway https://careersportal.ie/courses/coursedetail.ph p?course_id=673 Beware of college snobbery, trendy courses etc. Choose a broad-based course – postgraduate study is now the norm http://www.qualifax.ie/
Important Dates and Deadlines
TIMELY ACTION Closing dates are strict and therefore action should be taken in good time.
Dates and Deadlines Discounted application fee September 2017: CAO 2018 application packs delivered to schools November 6th 2017: CAO online application facility OPENS at 12:00 noon 6th Nov 2017 - January 20th 2018: €30 Discounted application fee
Dates and Deadlines Free online change of course choices facility closes 31st January 2018 at 5:15pm February 1st 2018 : Normal closing date for applications (€45 fee) is 1st February at 5:15pm Fee increases by €15 for applicants between 20th January – 1st February – APPLY EARLY!
Dates and Deadlines March/April 2018: Most tests and interviews for Restricted courses are held in March and April May 2018: Online Change of Mind (free) facility becomes available on 4th May at 12:00 noon
Dates and Deadlines June 2018: Leaving Certificate examinations July 2018: Change of Mind Closes on 1st July at 5:15pm August 2018: Current year Leaving Certificate results issued in mid-August Round One offers issued 22nd August (expected date) Round One acceptances closing date 29th August (expected date) at 5:15pm
Dates and Deadlines Round Two offers issued 31st August (expected date) September: Colleges begin registration - Round Two acceptances closing date 7th September at 5:15pm (expected date) October: Results of Leaving Certificate appeals (re-checks) released in early October - Offer season ends 19th October at 5:15pm Incidental dates information – most 95% plus will have a course offered and accepted within round 1.
The Application Process
www.cao.ie Demo Application Click: on student resources on left column Click on demo application on left. NOTE: THIS IS A DEMO APPLICATION – NOT REAL! Now we are going to do a generate a demo application – the simplest way to demonstrate the application process. Do this as some parents want to do this at home – others are happy for them to do it in class time.
Recapping on the important aspects of the demo application
Making an application Applicants are encouraged to apply online. The website address is www.cao.ie Click on ‘Apply’ and enter the information requested. Visit the ‘Student Resources or Info for Parents’ section accessible here for Video Guides and useful resources including the ‘Demo Application’ Facility. Encouraged to apply during a class period – debit card details required.
Online Application Form Information which identifies your son is of the utmost importance. Carefully enter details such as his school name, address, date of birth, schools attended etc. Students examination details must be entered with great care – EXAM Number. Make sure he informs the CAO about all relevant qualifications and exemptions – select the relevant section(s) from the Qualifications and Assessments summary on the application form – LC2017
Application Number If your son applies online your application number will appear on his Receipt of Online Application. Also it is immediately text to the number registered. This number is private and it will be used in every correspondence between your son and the CAO for the rest of the year.
The Application Click on “Apply” to generate an online application form This generates a CAO Number which your son needs in addition to D.O.B and Password created to login to “My Application” section of CAO website The application can be repeatedly changed for free from 4th November until 20th January There are no limits to how many times you can change your form.
Brief look at the CAO Handbook 2018 I have photocopied
The Course Handbook CAO distributes to schools and individuals a handbook containing instructions and information about the application process. Every applicant should be familiar with the contents of the CAO Handbook. This is an A-Z of every HEI and course in the country Listing all of the available courses applicable through the CAO
Summary Handbook - Handout List of HEIs – valuable contact details of admissions officers CAO Timetable of events Online applicant checklist Sample Paper CAO Form Page 25 – start of the YELLOW pages Athlone I.T. - Level 6,7,8 DG+HD – Level 78 HC+DG+HD = Level 6 7 8 What is the difference? 6, 7, 8? Quality? Trinity College Dublin – Also offering Level 7 courses
Qualification Framework
Is the CAO 2 applications in 1?
2 applications in 1 There are 2 course choice lists (Level 8 and Level 7/6) and applicants may make up to 10 course choices on each list. Your choices on one list do not in any way affect your choices on the other list. They may be considered two separate applications on one form. It is possible to receive an offer on both lists. You may then decide to accept either your Level 7/6 OR your Level 8 offer. Alternatively, you might not wish to accept either offer. ***Accepting a level 7 offer AFTER your level 8 will supersede your Level 8 acceptance*** **********************!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!IMPORTANT SLIDE!!!!!!*********************
Listed in genuine order of preference! Level 8 Level 6/7 Pref Course Code 1 CK101 BN003 2 DC201 TA102 3 AL033 TA101 4 DN021 NC101 5 TR084 TA108 6 DC115 DT315 7 DT366 DT521 8 BN101 9 DT413 10 PD101 Listed in genuine order of preference! Dream Courses Realistic courses Safety Net Courses
What some CAO forms might look like.. Level 8 Choices 1.GY201(Commerce) 2.GY301(Science) 3.GY401(Engineering) 4.GY517 (Midwifery) 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Level 7/6 Choices 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. This student has clearly lost focus of what he would like to do career-wise as there is no consistency in their career choices. They clearly want to go to GY (Galway).
What other CAO forms will look like.. Level 8 Choices 1.GY201 (Commerce) 2.GY209 (Commerce international) 3.MH401 (Business) 4. DT301 (Business) 5. TR080 (Business) 6. GY206 (BIS) 7. GA187 (Business & Agri.) 8. 9. 10. Level 7/6 Choices 1.AL663 (Business) AIT 2.GA877 (Business) GMIT 3.SG535 (Business) IT Sligo 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Here you can clearly see that the student wishes to study a business course and has selected various locations with varying levels of particular focus on business at all Levels 8, 7 and 6.
PLACE YOUR COURSE CHOICES IN GENUINE ORDER OF PREFERENCE! If you learn nothing else from this presentation let it be this… PLACE YOUR COURSE CHOICES IN GENUINE ORDER OF PREFERENCE! To do otherwise is a grave mistake!!!
# Restricted Courses # Applications which must be made by February 1st.
Restricted Courses Require a portfolio, interview or some form or added assessment Marked with a # (hash sign) on careersportal website and marked as restricted in CAO Handbook Interviews/assessments in April – thus Adding to a change of mind form in May is not possible. Common Restricted Courses: Art, Music, Architecture, Medicine (900 points)
Examples of Restricted Courses Architecture University of Limerick (UL) - restricted UCD architecture is not restricted Art NCAD restricted – LC Points do NOT apply – offer based on portfolio and meeting general entry requirement IADT – restricted – LC Points DO count and porfolio worth maximum of 600 – therefore scored out of 1200 i.e. 600 LC + 600 Porfolio
Change of Mind
Change of Mind You may use this facility to change the order of your course choices and/or to introduce new courses, subject to the restrictions detailed in the Handbook. Changes can be made from 6th November – 31st January with NO cost The Change of Mind (Free) re-opens on 4th May 2018 and closes on the 1st of July 2018 at 5:15pm.
The Offer Process
The Offer Process August 2018: Following the release of the Leaving Certificate results CAO will post a communication to all applicants. If you are entitled to an offer, you will be sent an Offer Notice by post – you will also receive and e-mail and SMS text message if you have selected this option. Most students will receive an offer(s) at this stage.
The Offer Process Offers will also be available on the CAO website. This is where the CAO video resources may need to be revisited to refresh your memory You may check for and accept offers on the website. In fact, most applicants now record acceptances online.
The Offer Process There can be no delays at the offer/acceptance stage. Any offer not accepted by the closing date for receipt of acceptance of offers in CAO will be offered to another applicant in the next round of offers. You will receive an Acknowledgement of Acceptance immediately by e-mail, and after the closing date for acceptances by post.
How places are allocated
How places are allocated We will look just at Level 8 courses, but exactly the same process will take place with Level 7/6 courses, and at the same time. The importance of you, the applicant, placing courses in genuine order of preference will become apparent in the following pages.
Place allocation The computer checks each applicant’s results. When examination results are released in mid-August 2018 they are entered into the CAO computer. The computer checks each applicant’s results. For each course the applicant has applied for, the computer first determines if the applicant has the minimum entry requirements for the course.
Place Allocation If the applicant meets the minimum entry requirements for the course, then the applicant’s points are calculated for this course choice. All eligible applicants are then placed in a list, in order of academic merit, for each course that they applied for.
Place Allocation The admissions officers of the Higher Education Institutions tell CAO how many places are to be offered on each course. CAO then makes offers to the required number of applicants on each course to the applicant with the highest points and working down until enough places have been offered.
Place allocation Should some applicants decline to accept their offers these places become available in the next round of offers. This process continues until all the places on the course are filled or until all the eligible applicants on the order of merit list have been offered places.
Place Allocation Example
Place allocation EXAMPLE – no results yet! These are the applicants for CK101 Arts in UCC. The examination results have not yet been released, so these applicants are in no particular order. We are going to trace the progress of the applicant marked in red.
EXAMPLE – LC results have been released. Applicants are placed in a queue for each course they applied for - their position in the queue is determined by their points. Remember: you will never be placed in a queue for a course if minimum entry requirements not met The applicant with the highest points is placed at the top of the queue. The points achieved by the applicant in red determines her position in the queue for each course she applied to.
EXAMPLE – HEIs issue R1 offers The applicants marked in GREEN have enough points to be offered places. The applicant marked in RED has enough points for her second preference.
EXAMPLE – HEIs issue R1 offers The applicant in RED is offered her second preference, the highest preference course that she has enough points for, and she will now disappear from the queue in all her lower choices. Placing DN201 as her second preference meant that she would prefer to receive an offer on DN201 than on any other course except CK101 - which is her first preference.
Listed in genuine order of preference! Level 8 Level 6/7 Pref Course Code 1 CK101 BN003 2 DC201 TA102 3 AL033 TA101 4 DN021 NC101 5 TR084 TA108 6 DC115 DT315 7 DT366 DT521 8 BN101 9 DT413 10 PD101 Listed in genuine order of preference! Dream Courses Realistic courses Safety Net Courses
Place allocation EXAMPLE – Round 2 offers After Round 2 offers are issued, our applicant is now in first place on the waiting list for her first preference course. She has already accepted her 2nd preference course - accepting or not accepting her 2nd preference course will not prevent her from receiving an offer of her 1st preference course if she is deemed eligible by the institution in a later round.
Place allocation EXAMPLE – An offer is issued in R3 for her 1st preference! In the third round of offers two more offers are made on CK101 and our applicant, who was at the top of the queue, now receives an offer. She may do nothing and remain in DN201 or she may accept the offer.
Round 2 offers It is unwise to reject a round 1 Offer on the chance of getting a second round offer. See student resources section of www.CAO.ie for further information http://www.cao.ie/index.php?page=studentr esources
Genuine Order of Preference You do not need to guess what the points are going to be for the courses you are interested in. Simply list your courses in genuine order of preference from the highest preference 1, to the lowest preference 10. If you are entitled to an offer, you will be offered the highest preference that you are entitled to.
Common Queries Q.1 I have received an offer of my 2nd preference course from my Level 8 application – if I accept this offer does this mean I won’t get any further offers? A. You may be offered your 1st preference in Round 2 if the points come down or if you get an exam paper re-checked, get a points increase etc.
Common Queries Q.2 I received my 3rd preference course but I would prefer my 4th, what should I do? A. Re-evaluate why you now do not wish to study a course that you placed as a higher preference. What are these reasons? There were multiple opportunities throughout the year to re-arrange your preferences – why only now do you want a lower preference?
Q.3 I have the points for the course but I did not receive an offer? Common Queries Q.3 I have the points for the course but I did not receive an offer? A. You have more than likely failed to meet the entry requirements.
Common Queries Q.4 What if I do want to go, but I don’t want to go yet? A. Consider deferring your place for a year.
Deferral Write or email IMMEDIATELY to the Admissions Office of the appropriate HEI Clearly mark “Deferred Entry” on the subject line/envelope Give details (CAO Number, Course Code, Reason) Email must be at least 2 days before ‘Reply date’ i.e. offer expiration date HEI will communicate decision – if not granted there is still time to accept (2days) If granted – accept offer Course guaranteed the following year i.e. September 2018
Communication with the CAO
Communicate with the CAO Always quote your CAO application number in any communication with CAO. 'Contact' facility on the CAO website – you will receive a reply to your query usually within one working day. This is a free service and it offers you peace of mind.
Useful Resources: Check out the ‘Applicant News’ page for regular updates. Watch this space for ‘Important Dates’. Visit the ‘Student Resources’ section accessible here for Video Guides and useful resources including the ‘Demo Application’, offer and acceptance videos and much more. Information for parents section on CAO website – Parents Guide to the CAO
Concluding slides... Entry Requirements and Points
Points Points trends – are only trends!! Points are subject/liable to change by an unknown quantity in any given year as we will see They can be checked very easily with careersportal/ Qualifax/ HEI prospectus Points trends – are only trends!! Go to careersportal here and show the computer science trends 2011-2012 – increase by 65 points – Computer Science Trinity Computer Science in DIT even more dramatic – increased by 50 regularly – Just like the world economy these course will go back down
Your points are not even checked by the CAO until you have met the entry requirements You can get 625 points in the Leaving Certificate and not obtain a course as you have not met the: General entry requirements and Specific entry requirements (if there are any) Have careers portal open for slde 63/64
Demo - Requirements Research Research requires: CAO Handbook for uptodate Course Codes and Careersportal website www.careersportal.ie – Course Research and Entry Requirements checker – LM099 – Architecture in University of Limerick Open careers portal at this stage or have opened ready to explore ER.s of both courses.
General Entry Requirements 2016 OLD GRADING BANDS 2017 NEW GRADING BANDS Typical general entry requirement: 5 OD3 5 06/H7 Institutes of Technology 2HC3 & 4OD3 2H5 & 4 O6/H7 National University of Ireland, Galway, NUI Maynooth, UCD, UCC etc. 3HC3 & 3OD3 3H5 & 3O6/H7 Trinity College Dublin
Specific Entry Requirements Course Title College Specific entry requirement: Business Athlone Institute of Technology n/a Engineering NUI Galway Laboratory Science & H4 in Maths Pharmacy Trinity College Dublin O4/H6 Maths H5 Chemistry H4 in Laboratory Science Garda Vetting
Useful websites www.cao.ie - ‘Information for parents’ section www.careersportal.ie www.qualifax.ie
Common Errors Not enough research into courses Listing courses in order of points instead of genuine preference Underestimating / overestimating Leaving Certificate results Targeting low point courses in hope of getting College place Targeting Level 8 courses only and ignoring Level 7 & 6 courses thereby Ladder of Opportunity Not considering courses outside certain geographic areas
Dos / ‘Don’ts of CAO Applications Do choose ten options if at all possible Do list courses in order of genuine preference Do make sure to have other options if you do not get your preferences e.g. PLC course Do check the CAO website for updates to courses - http://www.cao.ie/handbook.php?page=changes
Dos / ‘Don’ts of CAO Applications Do not depend totally on getting the 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice You may be offered your 4th / 5th / 6th / 7th / 8th / 9th / 10th choice. Be prepared for this and choose wisely! Do not disregard the GENUINE ORDER OF PREFERENCE rule! Do not ignore the Level 6/7 route Do not target only low point courses in hope of getting to College
The End.. Remember to carefully read all of the documents and instructions from CAO. Most applicants follow the simple instructions from CAO and get along just fine. If you are unclear on any matter concerning the application process, please contact the school.
Thank you for you attention!