‘Men always get more money than women’? Pay and advancement in small accounting firms Glenda Strachan and Mary Barrett Griffith University University of Wollongong WOW Seminar 15 October 2009

Survey of CPA members in small firms electronic survey in March 2008 sent to all CPA members in small firms 1424 (11 per cent) responses (47% women; 53% men) – women are 41% of CPA members

Figure 1: Age Profile Age & Qualifications

Employment Status

Job responsibility

Salaries: full-time by %

Do you believe women and men receive equal compensation for work of equal value in your organisation? ‘I HATE THESE QUESTIONS. SEXISM IS OUT, IT'S 2008! PEOPLE JUST WANT GOOD STAFF. I AM SICK OF STUPID CPA S SAYING THAT THERE ARE NOW MORE WOMEN THAN MEN SIGNING UP.....& MORE DOGS THAN CATS EAT BEFORE 7AM IN THE MORNING....WHO CARES!!!!!’ (original capitals). Male Most men thought there was equal remuneration: ‘There are no women partners but there are women managers who are paid at an appropriate rate for their experience and qualifications, and they would not be earning more if they were male.’

Women’s comments on unequal pay ‘Men are often given promotions over women as they are seen more likely to stay with the company and will also be offered partnerships over women. This has been my experience in the two accounting firms I have worked at (all male employers) because my employers believed most women will leave and have children at some stage. (I have actually spoken to them about this.)’ ‘7 women in our 10 person accounting practice. 2 of the men are paid more than all of the women (except for the principal who is a woman), but one is not producing anything like several of the women. In the past, the men have been paid noticeably higher than the women in the same position OR with the same skills OR the women have had better skills.’ ‘Unfortunately, men in this position hold more weight than women. When dealing with clients, if they were told something by a woman, they question it. If the same is told to them by a man, they accept it without a question.’ ‘Since having a baby I feel left out of a lot of things.’ ‘Men are all pigs.’

Do you believe that you have experienced any barriers to your career progression ? 167 women stated that they had experienced barriers & 151 women provided comments. Unlike the men’s responses which were work related eg size of firm, the majority of women’s responses related to being female (50 responses) and having children (23 responses).

Barriers to career progression: Women’s comments ‘As I view my career at near end barriers to me were as follows: 1 Being Female 2 Having Babies 3 being a mother. When unknown people wish to talk to the accountant and I get on the phone I still get can I talk to the accountant as a female must be the receptionist! Career just sort of evolved right place right time. Not something I planned or sought.’ She realised these barriers existed at the following point in her career: ‘Being sacked when I told my first employer I was pregnant for the first time. Being continually asked when I would be leaving after telling my then employer I was pregnant for the third time!’ ‘Being female and expected to be the receptionist etc if the only other people around where male even if I had more qualifications and experience. Having to fight for the same pay that my male counterparts where receiving’.

Barriers to career progression: Women’s comments The theme of women having children, or just the biological possibility that this might occur, was mentioned by several women: ‘Public accountant profession was very male orientated and I was once told they would only hire post menopausal women to avoid losing staff to maternity leave! It was very difficult to get flexible hours or part time work.’ ‘An office manager once told me that I would not make it to tax manager as I had “Ovaries”. I have since become very sensitive of this issue and believe that small firms do not treat this issue accordingly.’

Equal pay? ‘Men always get more money than women, are more valued for their opinion, get better job promotion opportunities, mainly because they can negotiate better; and other men (in management) appear more receptive to men and their ideas and where they come from. Men get more than women because they are men, and that they can pull the wool over everyone's eyes. They are better in men's eyes. Jobs for the boys!’