Senior Seminar - Civitella & Verguldi-Scott. "Unless philosophers become kings in our cities, or unless those who now are kings and rulers become true.

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Presentation transcript:

Senior Seminar - Civitella & Verguldi-Scott

"Unless philosophers become kings in our cities, or unless those who now are kings and rulers become true philosophers, so that political power and philosophic intelligence converge, and unless those lesser natures who run after one without the other are excluded from governing, I believe there can be no end to troubles…”

justicevirtuesoul

Book I  What is justice?  Why should we be just?

What is Cephalus’ position on justice? Justice means living up to your legal obligations and being honest

What is Socrates’ response to Cephalus? Returning a weapon to a madman, this would be an unjust act since it is jeopardizing the lives of others. (therefore justice has to be more)

Questions for discussion about Cephalus’ comments: Is the money maker in a family more concerned about money than future generations?

Questions about Cephalus’ comments What does Cephalus say is the greatest benefit of having wealth?

Polemarchus’ position on justice?  It is just to give to each what is owed  Justice means that you owe friends help, and you owe enemies harm.  Shares the same idea as Cephalus: the imperative of rendering to each what is due and of giving to each what is appropriate

Socrates response to Polemarchus  It is never just to harm anyone  Because our judgment concerning friends is fallible this idea of justice will lead us to harm the good and help the bad.  We are not always friends with the most virtuous individuals, nor are our enemies always the worst people in society. One should not harm someone else in the name of justice

Thrasymachus’ position on justice?  Justice is the advantage of the stronger. He really means to delegitimize justice by saying that it does not pay to be just. Just behavior works to the advantage of other people, not to the person who behaves justly. He believes that justice is an unnatural restraint of our natural desire to have more and the rational thing to do is to ignore it.  Those who behave unjustly naturally gain power and become rulers.

Socrates’ response?  Exposes the sophist’s campaign to do away with justice and all moral standards entirely.  S. makes T. admit that he is actually promoting injustice as a virtue. Meaning that life is a competition to continually get more than someone else.

Thrasymachus questions Is justice forced on us by rulers? By society? What is the punishment for acting unjustly? Consider the offense: fraud, robbery, rape, adultery, murder, treason?