Academically Productive Talk: Discussion within Word Generation August 7, 2013 Baltimore Summer Institute Cathy O'Connor Boston University

Briefly, why aim for talk and discussion? Talk reveals understanding and misunderstanding. Talk boosts memory for content and procedure. Talk supports academic language development. Talk supports deeper reasoning. Talk supports social development and perspective taking.

So why is it rare? There are many obstacles. Sounds great. Nevertheless… Sounds great. Nevertheless… *

We don’t have time! What if no one talks? I don't want to put them on the spot... some of my students are too shy to talk in front of everyone. “Fear of behavior” Some of my students are English language learners. Some have IEPs. I can't call on them… What if Spencer just hogs the floor, as usual?

Getting past these obstacles… 1. Basic goals for discussion 3. Classroom norms that support respectful and equitable discussion 2. Basic talk tools to achieve the goals: talk moves and practices

And just to be clear, before we get started, what is “academically productive talk”? (aka “accountable talk”)

It is talk by teachers and students about academically important content: Talk that supports development of student reasoning Talk that supports improvement in students' ability to communicate their reasoning

“I’ve been teaching this way all my life and I don’t call it anything.” “Academically productive talk” or “Accountable Talk” is based on observations of teachers like these.

Over the last two decades we have learned from many skilled teachers that there are FOUR IMPORTANT GOALS that are necessary to create productive discussion. Over the last two decades we have learned from many skilled teachers that there are FOUR IMPORTANT GOALS that are necessary to create productive discussion.

And by the way, a productive discussion can be long (15 minutes) or short (1-2 minutes).

FOUR GOALS to create productive discussion... FOUR GOALS to create productive discussion...

If only one or two students can do this, you don’t have a discussion, you have a monologue or a dialogue. Goal 1. Help individual students to share their reasoning so that it can be heard and understood.

Your ultimate goal involves sharing ideas, agreements and disagreements, arguments and counter-arguments, not simply a series of students giving their own, unconnected opinions. Goal 2. Help students to orient to others and listen to what others say.

Good discussion keeps a focus on reasoning. The teacher must scaffold this consistently, getting students to dig deeper. Goal 3. Help students to work on deepening their own reasoning.

Real discussion involves students actually taking up the ideas of other students, responding to them and working with them. Goal 4. Help students to work with the reasoning of other students.

Goal 1. Help individual students to share their reasoning so that it can be heard and understood. Goal 2. Help students to orient to others and listen to what others say. Goal 3. Help students to dig deeper in their own reasoning. Goal 4. Help students to work with the reasoning of others. So how do teachers get this to happen?

Goal 1. Help individual students to share their reasoning so that it can be heard and understood. Goal 2. Help students to orient to others and listen to what others say. Goal 3. Help students to dig deeper in their own reasoning. Goal 4. Help students to work with the reasoning of others. These things won’t happen consistently just by virtue of a good question, or an exciting topic.

Goal 1. Help individual students to share their reasoning so that it can be heard and understood. Goal 2. Help students to orient to others and listen to what others say. Goal 3. Help students to dig deeper in their own reasoning. Goal 4. Help students to work with the reasoning of others. Question: Does this episode satisfy the four goals for discussion?

Does it satisfy Goal 1? 1. Yes. 2. Maybe… 3. No. Goal 1. Help individual students to share their reasoning so that it can be heard and understood.

Does it satisfy Goal 2? 1. Yes. 2. Maybe… 3. No. Goal 2. Help students to orient to others and listen to what others say.

Does it satisfy Goal 3? 1. Yes. 2. Maybe… 3. No. Goal 3. Help students to dig deeper in their own reasoning.

Goal 4. Help students to work with the reasoning of others. Does it satisfy Goal 4? 1. Yes. 2. Maybe… 3. No.

How could you restructure the activity to achieve those four goals? What tools would you need?

2. Tools to help you accomplish the four goals

Goal 1. Help individual students to share their reasoning so that it can be heard and understood. Goal 2. Help students to orient to others and listen to what others say. Goal 3. Help students to dig deeper in their own reasoning. Goal 4. Help students to work with the reasoning of others. First, the teachers we studied had set up classroom norms for using talk respectfully, and for ensuring equitable participation. (We’ll return to this in 90 minutes or so.)

Goal 1. Help individual students to share their reasoning so that it can be heard and understood. Goal 2. Help students to orient to others and listen to what others say. Goal 3. Help students to dig deeper in their own reasoning. Goal 4. Help students to work with the reasoning of others. Second, they used a variety of talk moves that helped them achieve each of the four goals.

Goal 1. Help individual students to share their reasoning so that it can be heard and understood. Goal 2. Help students to orient to others and listen to what others say. Goal 3. Help students to dig deeper in their own reasoning. Goal 4. Help students to work with the reasoning of others. Let’s look at these tools in action, from the standpoint of the teacher trying to guide a discussion…

An example from Word Generation 6 th grade: Take a minute to read the introduction.

Discussion usually starts when the teacher poses a question:

“So SUVs, those really big cars, use a lot more gas. Do you think people should be allowed to drive SUVs?” 24 blank faces. 1 or 2 hands up. What if the response is this:

You think: Gee, I can’t even get to Goal 1. I’m just trying to get them to say what they think. Why won’t they talk?

You realize: They need time to think! (and maybe time to practice what they want to say!)

Find this node on your Talk Moves Map Goal 1 Talk Tools: Wait time Stop and jot (1-2 minutes) Turn and talk (1-2 minutes) (also known as Think-Pair-Share, Consider & Commit, etc.) Then…ask the question again.

So you give them time to think, time to practice, and then you ask the question again…

Javier: Well, the thing is, it’s not… like… yeah. Um… What if the response is this: “So SUVs, those really big cars, use a lot more gas. Do you think people should be allowed to drive SUVs?”

You think: Huh?? I didn’t understand that at all! Still stuck at Goal 1!

Now what do I do? I don’t want to embarrass him, and I don’t want to feel like I’m putting him on the spot…

Another talk tool: “Say more…” Can you say more about that? Could you say that again? Could you give us an example? So let me see if I understand what you’re saying. Are you saying…?

So Javier explains, and you start to understand his thinking. So then you ask the question again, and another student answers…

Rita: Well, they do make global warming worse, if they use a lot more gas, but what if they were like… an electric SUV? Then maybe that would be ok. And you get this, from a quiet student: “So SUVs, those really big cars, use a lot more gas. Do you think people should be allowed to drive SUVs?”

You think: Wow! That’s interesting! But to talk about that, everybody has to get it. Did everybody hear it? Were they listening?

Goal 2 talk tool: “Can anyone rephrase or repeat that?” Could somebody put that in their own words? That had a lot of information in it. Who could repeat some of that for us?

Goal 2 talk tool: “Can anyone rephrase or repeat that?” What does this buy you? What does it buy your students?

Kimberly: No, they’re not good. Or you might get something like this: “So SUVs, those really big cars, use a lot more gas. Do you think people should be allowed to drive SUVs?”

You think: I think everyone heard that, but it’s kind of minimal. We need to dig deeper into her reasoning.

Goal 3 talk tool “Why do you think that?” (also called “Press for Reasoning”) What’s your evidence? Can you explain your reasoning to us? How did you figure that out? Did something in the text make you think that?

So Kimberly digs deeper, and makes an more interesting contribution. She says “there’s no way you could make SUVs that AREN’T harmful to the environment.”

You think: They heard her, but I want them to connect with her thinking!

Goal 4 talk tool: “What do other people think about that?” Who agrees or disagrees and why? Who wants to add on to that? Does anyone have a different view? What do you think about that?

So these are the basic “four families” of talk moves: Say more Can someone rephrase that? Why do you think that? What do other people think? Say more Can someone rephrase that? Why do you think that? What do other people think?

But it’s not always so clear which one to choose… Say more Can someone rephrase that? Why do you think that? What do other people think? Say more Can someone rephrase that? Why do you think that? What do other people think?

James: I don’t like cars, so it doesn’t really matter what they’re like, because I’m not going to drive one anyway. What if a student says… “So SUVs, those really big cars, use a lot more gas. Do you think people should be allowed to drive SUVs?”

You think: That’s not really on target, but it might be productive to discuss it…

Cycle back to the four talk move families: Say more Can someone rephrase that? Why do you think that? What do other people think?

JB: SUBs, aren’t those like those little motorcycles? My uncle has one. What if a student says “So SUVs, those really big cars, use a lot more gas. Do you think people should be allowed to drive SUVs?”

You think: That’s wrongish, and I don’t think it’s going to be helpful to discuss it right now…

Use your best judgment about how to move on… Well, actually…(give correction) Restate the question… Ask the student to explain

“So SUVs, those really big cars, use a lot more gas. Do you think people should be allowed to drive SUVs?” Discussion ensues… It’s going well… but soon, several students in a row contribute compelling personal narratives that are… way off track! Finally, what if…

You think: We’re way off track. They’re engaged, but this isn’t the question…

Use your best judgment about how to get back on track… Can you link this back to our question? Can someone tell us how this relates to our first topic? Gee, what WAS our question? Who can remind us?

Goal 1. Help individual students to share their reasoning so that it can be heard and understood. Goal 2. Help students to orient to others and listen to what others say. Goal 3. Help students to dig deeper in their own reasoning. Goal 4. Help students to work with the reasoning of others. So these talk moves are tools that help you accomplish the goals that underlie productive discussion, whether it’s short or long.

One more tool to help with all of these steps… Using your ‘poker face’ and your ‘poker voice’…

Your students have been primed all through their schooling to look at the teacher’s face and listen to the teacher’s voice for clues to what the right answer is. When you scaffold a discussion, it will run aground if students simply look to you for the “right answer.” Why? Because then they’re not looking towards the discussable issue and their own positions, they’re just looking to you.

So if you can keep yourself from saying “Good!” and “Right!” and “Try again…” you’ll be giving your students a great gift.

Break time!

Let’s try out some talk moves with some simple cases. First: recall the passage…

GLOBAL WARMING: What should be done? (6th WG: 6.09)

1. You ask: “Should companies be allowed to make SUVs?” Kaisha: My uncle has a friend who gives him rides in his SUV. Your response: ____________________________________

1. Say More 2. Who can rephrase…? 3. Why do you think that? 4. What do others think? 5. Turn and Talk 6. Other Kaisha: My uncle has a friend who gives him rides in his SUV.

2. You ask: “Should companies be allowed to make SUVs?” Lawrence: But is gasoline a fossil fuel? Your response: ____________________________________

1. Say More 2. Who can rephrase…? 3. Why do you think that? 4. What do others think? 5. Turn and Talk 6. Other Lawrence: But is gasoline a fossil fuel?

3. You ask: “Should companies be allowed to make SUVs?” Kim: But how do we know that like the extra gas burned by SUVs makes any difference? If it’s so much goin’ on anyway, how do we know? Your response: ____________________________________

1. Say More 2. Who can rephrase…? 3. Why do you think that? 4. What do others think? 5. Turn and Talk 6. Other Kim: But how do we know that the extra gas burned by SUVs makes a difference? If it’s so much goin’ on anyway, how do we know?