1. Presentation on Subject Choice for Leaving Certificate
Kinsale Community School
Thursday, 26th January 2017

2. OVERVIEW OF PRESENTATION
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
SUBJECT CHOICE AND FURTHER EDUCATION
OVERVIEW OF SUBJECTS IN KINSALE COMMUNITY SCHOOL
SOME ADVICE

3. SENIOR CYCLE HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JUNIOR AND SENIOR CYCLE
FEWER SUBJECTS FOR EXAMINATION SO SUBJECTS ARE STUDIED IN GREATER DEPTH
MORE TIME GIVEN TO THOSE SUBJECTS E.G. FROM 3 CLASSES TO MIN 5 PER WEEK
THE LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY WITH REGARD TO SUBJECTS IS MUCH HIGHER

4. MAIN FACTORS WHICH CAN INFLUENCE SUBJECT CHOICE
WHAT SUBJECTS DOES THE STUDENT ENJOY ??
(Students will work best at these subjects)
ABILITY AND APTITUDE IN THE SUBJECT
(Exam/JC results, ease of class/homework)
IS THE SUBJECT NECESSARY FOR ENTRY TO A
COURSE AT THIRD LEVEL?

5. INFLUENCERS TO BE MINDFUL OF
PERCEIVED AS BEING ‘EASY’ OR ‘HARD’
(No subject is easy/hard…….suitability)
‘MALE’ OR ‘FEMALE’ SUBJECT
PICKING SUBJECTS IN RELATION TO TEACHERS
PICKING SUBJECTS IN RELATION TO FRIENDS

6. CONSEQUENCES OF POOR SUBJECT CHOICE
LIKELY TO BE UNHAPPY IN CLASS FOR TWO YEARS – LACK MOTIVATION
LIKELY NOT TO DO WELL - MAY IMPACT ON OVERALL ATTAINMENT
NOT HAVING A SUBJECT YOU MAY NEED FOR COURSE OF CHOICE AFTER SCHOOL
MAY WANT TO CHANGE SUBJECTS IN Y5. THE SCHOOL WILL TRY TO FACILITATE THIS BUT CANNOT ALWAYS DO SO AND CHANGING INVOLVES HAVING TO CATCH UP IN THE NEW SUBJECT – IT IS A DISADVANTAGE TAKING UP A SUBJECT 6 OR 8 WEEKS LATER THAN THE OTHER STUDENTS IN THE CLASS.

7. PREPARATION FOR GOOD SUBJECT CHOICE
STUDENTS HAVE DISCUSSED SUBJECT CHOICE IN CLASS, LOOKED AT IMPLICATIONS AND HAVE SEEN THE PRESENTATION
ALL STUDENTS HAVE RECEIVED THE ‘SUBJECT CHOICE BOOKLET’
STUDENTS HAVE RECIEVED THE RESULTS OF THEIR DIFFERENTIAL APTITUDE TESTS (CAN SERVE AS A TOOL TO STEER STUDENTS INTO SUBJECTS OF NATURAL APTITUDE)
STUDENTS ARE BEING ADVISED TO SPEAK WITH SUBJECT TEACHERS (JC TEACHERS CAN ADVISE ON SUITABILITY)
DISCUSS SUBJECT CHOICE WITH YOUR SON/DAUGHTER

8. WWW.CAREERSPORTAL.IE VERY GOOD RESOURCE

9. SUBJECT CHOICE AND ENTRY REQUIREMENTS TO HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTES (universities,colleges,ITs)

10. ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
GOOD SUBJECT CHOICE ALLOWS STUDENTS TO KEEP OPTIONS OPEN WHEN OTHER FACTORS HAVE BEEN TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT SUCH AS INTEREST, ABILITY, LIKELIHOOD OF WANTING TO PURSUE A COURSE AFTER SCHOOL
WHEN CHOOSING LEAVING CERTIFICATE SUBJECTS, CARE MUST BE TAKEN AS THE CHOICES OF SUBJECTS MADE NOW MAY INFLUENCE 3RD LEVEL AND CAREER OPTIONS IN 2 YEARS TIME.
STUDENTS CAN MAKE THE MISTAKE WHEN CHOOSING THEIR SUBJECTS OF NOT PICKING SUBJECTS THEY MAY SPECIFICALLY NEED LATER
IT CAN BE A MISTAKE TO CHOOSE A SUBJECT THEY HATE OR ARE NOT GOOD AT SIMPLY BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE NEEDED
REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY POINTS A STUDENT GETS IN THE LC, THEY WILL BE INELIGIBLE TO EVEN APPLY FOR A COURSE IF THEY HAVE NOT MET ITS ‘COURSE ENTRY REQUIREMENTS’

11. CHANGES TO THE LC GRADING SYSTEM
Higher Level Grade Ordinary Level Grade
H1 (90-100) O1 (90-100)
H2 (80 < 90) O2 (80 < 90)
H3 (70 < 80) O3 (70 < 80)
H4 (60 < 70) O4 (60 < 70)
H5 (50 < 60) O5 (50 < 60)
H6 (40 < 50) O6 (40 < 50)
H7 (30 < 40) O7 (30 < 40)
H8 (0 < 30) O8 (0 < 30)

12. New Common Points Scale
Honours Maths
25 bonus points will continue be awarded in 2017 for higher level mathematics, at grades H6 and above
________________
Important change
Grade H7
(Hons 30%- 40%) will earn points in new system
Higher Level Grade
Points
Ordinary Level Grade H1
100 H2 88 H3 77 H4 66 H5 56 O1 H6 46 O2 H7 37 O3 H8 O4 28 O5 20 O6 12 O7 O8

13. ROUTES AFTER SCHOOL
APPLY TO POST LEAVING CERT COURSES (YOU APPLY DIRECTLY TO COLLEGE) eg. ST. JOHN’S COLLEGE, COLLEGE OF COMMERCE, COLAISTE STIOFAN NAOFA, KINSALE COLLEGE OF FURTHER EDUCATION
APPLY TO COURSES THROUGH THE CAO (CENTRAL APPLICATIONS OFFICE) UNIVERSITIES AND INSTITUTES OF TECHNOLOGY eg. UCC, CIT, UL, TRINITY, ETC

14. POST LEAVING CERT COURSES (PLCs)
APPLY ONLINE DIRECTLY TO COLLEGE
FIVE PASSES IN LEAVING CERT (5 06/H7) PLUS INTERVIEW
LEAVING CERT APPLIED STUDENTS ALSO ACCEPTED
SOME MINIMUM SUBJECT REQUIREMENTS MAY APPLY
eg. Beauty therapy requires Biology at Leaving Cert level and some Computer Courses require Ordinary Level maths
AWARDED BY QQI (Quality and Qualifications Ireland) at LEVEL 5 or 6 (yr 2)
THERE ARE LINKS IN PLACE TO PROGRESS TO LEVEL 6, 7 AND 8 IN INSTITUTES OF TECHNOLOGY AND UNIVERSITIES (eg. Childcare with Early Childhood Studies UCC and CIT)

15. Entry to HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTES (Institutes of Technology, Universities, Colloeges) 3 FACTORS
Minimum Entry Requirements
Specific Entry Requirements (may also involve interviews, portfolios etc)
Points

16. CAO – COURSES
LEVEL 8 - (HONOURS DEGREE COURSES) RUN BY THE UNIVERSITIES e.g. UCC AND INSTITUTES OF TECHNOLOGY e.g. CIT
LEVEL 7 - (ORDINARY LEVEL DEGREES COURSES) RUN BY THE INSTITUTES OF TECHNOLOGY
LEVEL 6 - (HIGHER CERTIFICATE) RUN BY THE INSTITUTES OF TECHNOLOGY
(LEVEL 6, 7 AND 8- APPLY THROUGH THE CAO)

17. MINIMUM ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
THERE ARE MINIMUM ENTRY REQUIREMENTS TO BE MET FOR ALL HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTES (HEIs).
MOST OF THESE REVOLVE AROUND THE CORE SUBJECTS OF IRISH, ENGLISH, MATHS AND A MODERN CONTINENTAL LANGUAGE
EVEN WITHIN HEIs THESE DIFFER, SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO CHECK THEM OUT ON THE COLLEGE WEBSITES

18. MINIMUM ENTRY REQUIREMENTS OF MAJOR CAO COLLEGES
Institution
Minimum grades
Required subjects
NUI Colleges: UCD, NUIM, NUIG,(RCSI, Shannon, Miltown)
UCC
2H5 + 4O6/H7
O6/H7 in English, Irish,
Maths (not for all courses) & Modern Language (not for all courses)
Trinity College Dublin
3H5 + 3O6/H7
O6/H7 in Maths, English & any other Language
Dublin City University
O6/H7 in Maths, English or Irish
University of Limerick
O6/H7 in Maths, English & Irish or another Language.
Institutes of Technology (L 8)
(L6/7)
2H5 + 4O6/H7 (Hons Degree)
5O6/H7 (Ord Degree/ Higher Cert.)

19. SOME EXAMPLES OF MINIMUM ENTRY TO THIRD LEVEL
IN UCC TO DO A COURSE IN THE FACULTY OF ARTS,CELTIC STUDIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES OR LAW YOU NEED AS A MINIMUM TO HAVE 2H5 AND 4O6/H7 IN YOUR LC (6 SUBJECTS). THE 6 SUBJECTS MUST INCLUDE IRISH, ENGLISH AND A MODERN LANGUAGE BUT YOU DO NOT NEED MATHS!
IN UCC TO DO A COURSE IN THE FACULTY OF COMMERCE YOU WILL NEED MINIMUM 2H5 AND 4O6/H7. THE SIX MUST INCLUDE IRISH, ENGLISH, MATHS AND A MODERN LANGUAGE
IN UCC TO DO A COURSE IN THE FACULTY OF SCIENCE YOU WILL NEED MINIMUM 2H5 AND 4O6/H7. YOU MUST HAVE IRISH, ENGLISH, MATHS AND ONE SCIENCE SUBJECT BUT YOU DO NOT NEED A MODERN LANGUAGE.
IN UCC TO DO MEDICINE YOU WILL NEED 2H5 TO INCLUDE CHEMISTRY AND EITHER PHYSICS OR BIOLOGY AND 4O6/H7s
TO INCLUDE IRISH, ENGLISH, ANOTHER LANGUAGE AND MATHS
(+HPAT)

20. PARTICULAR SUBJECTS AND MINIMUM ENTRY REQUIREMENTS cont.
IRISH
HIGHER LEVEL (H5) FOR PRIMARY TEACHING
NURSING IRISH O6/H7 for the NUI COLLEGES (no requirement in Institutes of Technology)
ANY COURSE WITH IRISH AS A SUBJECT WILL HAVE A SPECIFIC GRADE REQUIREMENT

21. PARTICULAR SUBJECTS AND MINIMUM ENTRY REQUIREMENTS cont.
ENGLISH
SOME COURSES HAVE SPECIFIC ENTRY REQUIREMENT EG,
HIGHER LEVEL ENGLISH (H4) IS REQUIRED FOR JOURNALISM (UL/DCU) AND COMMUNICATION STUDIES/MULTIMEDIA (DCU), MEDIA STUDIES (NUIM)
DEAF STUDIES IN TCD (H4) IN ENGLISH
MOST OTHER COURSES REQUIRE PASS AT ORDINARY LEVEL

22. PARTICULAR SUBJECTS AND MINIMUM ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
MATHEMATICS
HIGHER LEVEL (H4) REQUIRED FOR MOST LEVEL 8 ENGINEERING, SOME COMPUTER SCIENCE (TCD and NUIM)
ORDINARY LEVEL FOR MOST OTHER COURSES ON CAO
FOUNDATION LEVEL- ACCEPTABLE FOR SOME CAO COURSES
NO MATHS REQUIREMENT FOR SOME ARTS (UCC) AND LAW DEGREES (NUI COLLEGES)
SOME ART AND DESIGN COURSES HAVE NO MATHS REQUIREMENT
STUDY MATHS AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL YOU CAN

23. PARTICULAR SUBJECTS AND MINIMUM ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
CONTINENTAL LANGUAGES
SUBJECT REQUIRED FOR ENTRY INTO NUI COLLEGE
EXCEPTIONS
NOT REQUIRED FOR NURSING IN ANY OF THE UNIVERSITIES. (But is required for other healthcare courses – speech and language, occupational therapy etc.)
NOT REQUIRED FOR ANY ENGINEERING OR SCIENCE DEGREES
INSTITUTES OF TECHNOLOGY (LEVEL 6 and 7) DO NOT REQUIRE CONTINENTAL LANGUAGE (SO NO LANGUAGE REQUIREMENT FOR ENTRY TO CIT,DIT,WIT ETC)
UL WILL ACCEPT IRISH OR CONTINENTAL LANGUAGE

24. SCIENCE SUBJECTS
ONE LABORATORY SCIENCE SUBJECT (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Agricultural Science) NEEDED FOR MOST SCIENCE/HEALTHCARE RELATED COURSES
MUST BE BIOLOGY FOR
HUMAN HEALTH AND DISEASE (TCD)
GENETICS (UCC)
BEAUTY THERAPY (PLC COURSES)
ADVISABLE FOR NURSING
MUST BE CHEMISTRY FOR
DENTISTRY (UCC)
HUMAN NUTRITION AND DIETETICS (DIT)
MEDICINE (UCC)
PHARMACY (UCC and TCD)
VETERINARY MEDICINE (UCD)
ADVISABLE FOR ALL MEDICINE

25. SCIENCE SUBJECTS MUST BE PHYSICS FOR THEORETICAL PHYSICS (TCD)
ADVISABLE FOR ENGINEERING COURSES
TWO SCIENCES NEEDED FOR
PHARMACY
SOME MEDICINE ENTRY
MOST PHYSIOTHERAPY (Except UL)
MEDICINE
GENERALLY TWO SCIENCES (5YRS) EXCEPT NUIG, RCSI, UCD SIX YEAR COURSE WITH ONE SCIENCE SUBJECT
LEAVING CERT SCORES ADDED TO HPAT

26. OTHER SUBJECTS AND ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
BUSINESS, ACCOUNTING, HOME ECONOMICS, HISTORY, GEOGRAPHY, DCG, ENGINEERING, CONSTRUCTION, RELIGION, APPLIED MATHS, – NOT REQUIRED for basic ENTRY for any courses BUT DESIRABLE if intending to study at Third Level
ART AND MUSIC- Again generally NOT REQUIRED as basic entry requirement even if intending to study at Third Level BUT PORTFOLIO (ART) or COMPETENCE TEST (MUSIC) required for entry to Third Level Courses

27. SUBJECT AND CAREERS USEFUL OR REQUIRED?
MOST OTHER COURSES/ CAREERS DO NOT SPECIFICALLY REQUIRE SUBJECTS BUT THEY ARE OF COURSE USEFUL. E.G. YOU DO NOT NEED ACCOUNTING IN LEAVING CERT TO STUDY ACCOUNTING IN COLLEGE ; BUT IT HELPS.
IF SERIOUS ABOUT ANY AREA ( BUSINESS, ART, SCIENCE, PRACTICAL, TECHNICAL, ETC) THEN THE CHOICE OF RELATED SUBJECTS IS EASY AND OBVIOUS
IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE TO STUDY 3 SCIENCES, 3 TECHNICAL SUBJECTS, 2-3 CREATIVE SUBJECTS, 2 BUSINESS SUBJECTS AND STUDENTS DO SO SUCCESSFULLY EVERY YEAR

28. SUBJECT CHOICE AND PROCEDURES AT KCS

29. COMPULSORY SUBJECTS All Three Subjects (3)
Irish (or Business if DES exempt)
English
Maths
These subjects are vital for careers/ courses
One of the Following (1)
French
German
Geography
STUDENTS NEED TO BE MINDFUL HERE

30. OPTIONAL SUBJECTS – CHOOSE 3
Geography
History
Home Economics
Physics (JC Science)
Chemistry (JC Science)
Biology (JC Science)
Art
Music
Business (JC Bus St)
Accounting (JC Bus St)
Construction Studies (known as Materials Technology (Wood) for JC)
Engineering (known as Metalwork (Materials Technology) for JC)
Design and Communication Graphics (known as Tech Graph for JC)
Agricultural Science
Exam Religion

31. OPTIONAL SUBJECTS
IT IS HIGHLY DESIRABLE THAT IF A STUDENT PICKS A SUBJECT FOR LC THAT THEY HAVE TAKEN IT TO JC, IF THEY HAVE NOT STUDIED IT PREVIOUSLY THEY MAY BE AT A CONSIDERABLE DISADVANTAGE
IF A SUBJECT HAS NOT BEEN TAKEN TO JC IT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE TO DO IT FOR LC – IT DEPENDS ON THE SUBJECT. FOR EXAMPLE TAKING UP HOME ECONOMICS IS VERY POSSIBLE BUT BIOLOGY IS VERY DIFFICULT WITHOUT JUNIOR SCIENCE

32. IMPORTANT POINTS
NECESSARY SUBJECTS VS USEFUL SUBJECTS (AN IMPORTANT DIFFERENTIATION)
DCG/CONSTRUCTION STUDIES/ENGINEERING ARE NOT NEEDED TO DO ENGINEERING COURSES IN COLLEGE. MATHS AND PHYSICS ARE MORE IMPORTANT. ALL ARE USEFUL
ART IS GENERALLY NOT NEEDED FOR ART AND DESIGN COURSES. A PORTFOLIO IS NEEDED HOWEVER.
FOR ALL BUSINESS/COMMERCE COURSES, MATHS IS GENERALLY A REQUIREMENT RATHER THAN BUSINESS SUBJECTS BUT THEY ARE USEFUL.
MUSIC COURSES REQUIRE AN AUDITION, NOT THE SUBJECT
GENERAL SUBJECTS LIKE HISTORY, GEOGRAPHY, ETC CAN BE STUDIED IN COLLEGE WITHOUT DOING THEM FOR LC BUT THEY ARE HELPFUL

33. GENERAL ADVICE e.g. one language one science one business
If students are really not sure what they want to do in the future:
Pick a broad range of subjects in order to keep options open
e.g.
one language
one science
one business
one humanities / practical
This combination would allow access into a broad range of courses/careers.
Many students have an idea of their direction re. subject choice
SCIENTIFIC
ARTISTIC / CREATIVE
PRACTICAL
SOCIAL / HEALTH
HUMANITIES
BUSINESS
Making very acceptable combinations of choices
Many students will change their minds about their future a number of times in the next 2 years

34. SOME USEFUL RESOURCES
(click on students, then subject choice, then on minimum requirements and also in choosing a career)
(very comprehensive)
Any of the college websites such as ,etc.
The above and such other sites will give specific information on Third Level courses
Last years Points can be found in these websites also or also on
Information on the % of grades awarded in each subject is available on and gives access to past exam papers
(allows you to see what is involved in the LC subject)

35. Procedures around Subject Choice
FORM HAS BEEN POSTED HOME
LIST 4 SUBJECTS - IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE
THEY WILL MOST PROBABLY GET THEIR TOP THREE, THE FOURTH IS A ‘BACK-UP’.
FORM FILLED IN PROPERLY AND SIGNED IN TO MS. KATHLEEN O’ BRIEN’S OFFICE BY 11AM ON MONDAY 6TH FEB.
STUDENTS WILL BE NOTIFIED IN WRITING WITH THEIR SUBJECTS FOR FIFTH YEAR

36. WHAT YOU LIKE
WHAT YOU’RE GOOD AT
WITH ‘AN EYE’ TO WHAT YOU MIGHT NEED……
BE REALISTIC ABOUT ABILITY AND POSSIBLE FUTURE COURSE AND CAREER CHOICE
STUDENT WILL HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR CHOICE AND THEIR EDUCATION
ANY QUESTIONS
Contact Ms. K O’Brien