1. The Lure of The Ladder Line G5RV Antenna VE3KL
Wireman551
Copper Clad Steel Core
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

2. Presentation Outline The Lure of the Ladder Line: Steve Ford QST 1993
Wes Stewart N7WS, Dan McGuire AC6LA
Losses in common Transmissions lines
Examples of High and Low Losses in Ladder Line
The G5RV Antenna
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

3. Steve Ford’s Experiment (looking for a small multi-band antenna) QST 1993
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

4. First Attempt (Coaxial Feed)
66 foot dipole
Used from 160 to 10 metres !
66 Feet
Thick Copper
High Quality Coax
RG213
Loss:0.2 MHz
Looks Good!
50 Feet
Tuner
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

5. First Attempt.. Results Total Loss = 25 dB @ 1.9 MHz Why?
66 Feet
Thick Copper
High Quality Coax
RG213
Loss:0.2 MHz
50 Feet
100 W in
0.3 W Radiated
Tuner
40m
Half Wave Dipole
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

6. Second Attempt..Ladder Line
Total Loss = MHz
Why?
66 Feet
Thick Copper
Ladder Line Wireman 551
Loss:0.1 MHz
50 Feet
100 W in
14 W Radiated
Tuner
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

7. Wes Stewart Measured Wireman 551 Losses Used an HP VNA at 50 MHz
Now Let’s find out Why
Wes Stewart Measured Wireman 551 Losses
Used an HP VNA at 50 MHz
Included the case for ice/snow
Dan McGuire included DC and Low frequencies
Developed TLDetails…reflection losses
Uses measurements from Wes Stewart
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

8. Insertion Loss: Depends on frequency
Three components to loss
Loss at or near DC..160 m Ladder Line
Skin effect Loss.. Important through HF
Dielectric Loss..usually small but can dominate as we will see in Ladder Line
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

9. Insertion Loss: Depends on frequency
Basic Formula….not complete in 1993
DC Component
Skin Effect
Dielectric Loss
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

10. TLDetails Dan McGuire AC6LA
Visual Basic Transmission Line Calculator
Includes work of Wes Stewart for Ladder Line
Added the effect of DC resistance
Includes reflection losses assuming a perfect
Antenna tuner
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

11. Zin,SWR,all losses,RL,power,Zo,VF…
TL Details AC6LA Given the load ZL,TLDetails solves the Telegraphers equation
Tuner
(Ideal)
Load ZL TX
(Ideal)
Transmission Line
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
Zin,SWR,all losses,RL,power,Zo,VF…
ZL from measurements or simulation
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

12. Loss in Ladder line is so small it does not have to be considered
Common Myth
Loss in Ladder line is so small
it does not have to be considered
in the design
Let’s Challenge this
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

13. TLDetails AC6LA ..the myth
LMR 400 Coax
Wireman 551
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

14. Wireman 551 Note the scale (100 dB max.)
ICE/Snow
DRY
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

15. Back To Steve’s Experiment Use SimSmith
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

16. First Attempt 66 foot dipole Used from 160 to 10 metres!
66 Feet
Thick Copper
High Quality Coax
RG213
Loss:0.2 MHz
Looks Good!
50 Feet
Tuner
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

17. Dominated by Reflection Losses Power in = 100 Watts RG-213 Power out = 0.315 Watts @1.8 MHz
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

18. Apply Ideas to the Balanced G5RV Antenna
Approximate Analysis using
EZNEC,TLDetails
SimSmith
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

19. Balanced G5RV Antenna 31.8 metres 3λ/2 @14.15 MHz Radiator
Ladder Line
Make Up Section
Balun
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
Coaxial Cable
Critical
Antenna Tuner
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

20. Case 1 Coax Cable Length = 0
31.8 metres
MHz
Radiator
ZAnt
MHz
Ladder Line
NOT a RADIATOR ZT
Balun/Tuner
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
Use EZNEC Antenna Simulator to find ZAnt
Use TLDetails to find ZT and Losses
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

21. Case 1: Coax Cable Length = 0 Wireman 551 Ladder Line Loss (Length = 31.31 feet)
Band [m]
Freq [MHz]
Zant
[Ohms] ZT
[Ohms
Loss
[dB]
Performance
160 [1.8]
5.6 – j1521
5 – j519 7
Poor
80 [3.5]
25 – j421
17 –j14
1.7
Fair
40 [7 ]
506 + j1174
53 –j123
0.24
Excellent
30 [10.1]
1344 – j2180
77 + j409
0.6
Good
20 [14.15]
121 + j0
125 + j0
0.2
17 [18.068]
2540 +j1700
91 –j382
0.4
15 [21 ]
268 – j991
45 + j128
12 [24.89]
233 +j412
109 + j45
10 [28]
j169
2194 +j1120
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
Length of Antenna = 103 feet

22. Case 2 Coaxial Cable Length = 50 feet
31.8 metres
MHz
Radiator
MHz
Ladder Line
NOT a RADIATOR
Balun
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
Coaxial Cable RG213
Critical
Antenna Tuner
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL

23. Case 2: Coax Cable (RG213) Length = 50 feet Loss due to Coax
Band [m]
Freq [MHz] ZT
[Ohms
Coax Loss
[dB]
Performance
160 [1.8]
5 – j519
10.8
Poor
80 [3.5]
17 –j14
0.4
Excellent
40 [7]
53 –j123
0.8
30 [10.1]
77 + j409
3.9
20 [14.15]
125 + j0
17 [18.068]
91 –j382
4.0
15 [21]
45 + j128
1.5
Good
12 [24.89]
109 + j45
0.6
10 [28]
2194 +j 1120
5.9
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits

24. G5RV Using SimSmith Loss @ 1.8 MHz = 18 dB
Ladder
Line
Coax Tx
EZNEC
(Antenna)
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits

25. G5RV Summary Works well on 80, 40, 20, 15 and 12 meters
Must set it up to resonate at MHz
Other Losses not included: Tuner, Ant. efficiency
High SWR produces very high voltages
Needs a very high quality Tuner and Coax
Poor performance if covered with Ice/Snow
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits

26. Summary Can apply the methods to most antenna systems
Wire, vertical, Yagi, Uhf
SimSMith can import measured or EZNEC data
Can include tuner losses and imperfect transmitters
Can include antenna losses
Be careful with SWR values > 3:1
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits

27. 73 Dave VE3KL
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits

28. References
Louis Varney Video:
Balanced Transmission Lines in Current Amateur Practice, Wes Stewart, N7WS
Steve Ford, WB8IMY, The Lure of the Ladder Line, QST Dec 1993
TLDetails, Dan Maguire, AC6LA:
SimSmith, AE6TL
A method that you can use easily to evaluate your own noise environment
A method that you can use to evaluate the quality of the ionosphere at any give time.
Some methods to control received noise
The Shannon Hartley limits
11/21/2018
David Conn VE3KL