1. Parish Share Consultation
Carlisle Diocese
Resourcing Revival
Parish Share Consultation
Very good to be here. Would like to introduce others/thanks for the introductions – Ted Taylor, Jane Natrass, John Preston, John Libby.
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

2. Why are we here?
following the Resourcing Revival consultation, Diocesan Synod commissioned a review of Parish Share
here today to …
… present proposals
… listen to your comments
So, why are we here?
Not a theological question!
Here because many increasing level of concern about parish share system. Resourcing Revival consultation last year threw up many issues. Synod asked us to review Parish Share. So here tonight to present some ideas … and listen to your comments.
This again is a genuine consultation. Were out in Deaneries spring last year talking about Resourcing Revival. Hope you feel that what parishes said then has been acted upon. Hope you can feel confident that what you say tonight and in coming months will be acted upon. Going to propose something quite different tonight to the existing parish share system. In one sense quite a risky proposal. If, in our parishes, we can’t commit to it then it won’t happen.
Not going to give long introduction. Instead, going to get straight into the proposals themselves. These proposals are based on the idea of informed giving and would give a greater role to the Deanery.
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

3. context expenditure – mainly stipends and housing
income – mainly Parish giving
need to make the ends meet A1
in middle ages, builders often started at both ends of cathedral and worked towards each other A2
quite a useful picture when thinking about our finances, our budgeting.
one end of our work is what we know we have to spend
NB not much room for manoeuvre – because most of it salaries/stipends A3
other end is income, mainly what parishes offer to Diocese A4
in budget process have to make sure these two ends meet!
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4. realistic Deanery “Aspirations” parishes make generous offers
Proposals
realistic Deanery “Aspirations”
… set after discussions with Rural Deans
parishes make generous offers
… towards the costs of ministry
underpinned by information
… about costs and need
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5. diocese deanery parish/team plans budget calculates costs
information, discussion, deanery aspirations
deanery offer
deanery
parish offers
in terms of a slightly different illustration – shows diagramatically how this works.
diocese plans budget
works out costs
gives information to deaneries, discusses with representatives what aspirations should be
deaneries discuss similarly with parishes
parishes make offers
deanery reviews them, may go back for more discussion
offers go to diocese
diocese reviews them, may go back for more discussion
information, discussion
parish/team
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6. Why is this better than the existing system?
It’s risky, but …
… it’s based on 4 Christian principles
generous giving
supporting each other to provide ministry
openness and honesty
encouraging growth
So why should you feel persuaded by these ideas?
There are clear risks – everyone may simply choose to offer a bit less than they paid last year and I end up with a big headache trying to balance the budget! But isn’t that a risk already?
We believe that there are 4 Christian principles that underpin these proposals. The first is
click
that it’s about generous giving
at the moment parish share feels like a punitive tax …
… shouldn’t it feel like an offering?
shouldn’t we take greater responsibility for paying for the level of ministry we want …
… but share the burden according to our faith
can’t throw the formula away and replace with an approach based on informed giving
Second, it should encourage growth.
growth is a Diocesan goal
existing system taxes growth heavily while disguising and cushioning decline …
… shouldn’t it do the opposite?
shouldn’t it encourage parishes to raise money for new work rather than the diocese take the majority of that money in extra parish share
third, it shouldn’t allow an over-emphasis on growth or costs to lead to withdrawing ministry from some areas. It’s based on the principle of supporting each other.
The proposals are based on the principles of openness and honesty.
clarity about costs and about needs … encourages each of us to take responsibility … and leads to better decisions about …
what ministry we have
where it is deployed
what it is there to do
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7. ministry costs stipendiary NSM house for duty direct costs
stipend and NI
21,648
n/a
pension
7,371
housing etc
6,897
recruitment
curates
5,750
2,875
ordination
1,325
training
clergy training
303
lay training
531
265
total
43,825
11,665
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8. costs and parish share Deanery 2007 actual costs 2007 parish share
requested
2007 share paid
at 2005 collection
rate
Brampton
354,816
343,622
329,602
Windermere
461,582
585,879
574,689
Calder
644,332
588,425
490,570
Penrith
421,567
392,893
Barrow
438,250
297,128
280,043
Kendal
512,857
736,179
701,505
The figures such a weighting throws up are a long way away from the current system, as you can see from this slide. Figures for other deaneries for info.
And they’re even further away from the figures when you look at the amount of parish share actually paid.
Why is this the case? Mixture of reasons. First some parishes who simply don’t want to play ball – either don’t want to face up to their obligations, haven’t risen to the challenge in recent years. Don’t want to give that undue weight, but there is an element of that.
But more of the reason for differences between deaneries is that even when average income is taken into account, there are areas where I hope we would all agree that we should put more ministry
because the social problems are greater
or because we think there are opportunities for growth there
or because there are fewer lay people who have the skills to help
or because the population is spread so thinly
That has to continue. It’s part of being the Body of Christ in Cumbria. Historically if the Church has simply looked to cover its costs there would have been:
no early church
no Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians
no Church Missionary Society or USPG
no work in Africa and China and Korea sowing the seeds for the massive spread of Christianity there in recent years.
So we can’t ignore those needs. But we can be clear about the costs of meeting them. That’s why we’ve worked them out. People need to understand what it costs to have the ministry we want and make better decisions about the ministry we want. Making these costs very clear will force Parishes to face up to the reality.
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

9. costs and parish share Deanery 2007 actual Costs 2007 parish share
requested
2007 share paid
at 2005 collection
rate
Appleby
350,600
303,998
243,745
Carlisle
843,193
728,091
671,445
Derwent
385,598
386,257
378,802
Furness
398,581
369,720
349,533
Solway
625,125
512,344
471,663
The figures such a weighting throws up are a long way away from the current system, as you can see from this slide. Figures for other deaneries for info.
And they’re even further away from the figures when you look at the amount of parish share actually paid.
Why is this the case? Mixture of reasons. First some parishes who simply don’t want to play ball – either don’t want to face up to their obligations, haven’t risen to the challenge in recent years. Don’t want to give that undue weight, but there is an element of that.
But more of the reason for differences between deaneries is that even when average income is taken into account, there are areas where I hope we would all agree that we should put more ministry
because the social problems are greater
or because we think there are opportunities for growth there
or because there are fewer lay people who have the skills to help
or because the population is spread so thinly
That has to continue. It’s part of being the Body of Christ in Cumbria. Historically if the Church has simply looked to cover its costs there would have been:
no early church
no Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians
no Church Missionary Society or USPG
no work in Africa and China and Korea sowing the seeds for the massive spread of Christianity there in recent years.
So we can’t ignore those needs. But we can be clear about the costs of meeting them. That’s why we’ve worked them out. People need to understand what it costs to have the ministry we want and make better decisions about the ministry we want. Making these costs very clear will force Parishes to face up to the reality.
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

10. Relative prosperity on a household income basis
Other information
Relative prosperity on a household income basis
0.84 Solway, Carlisle, Barrow
1.05 Penrith, Appleby, Brampton, Calder, Furness
1.15 Derwent, Kendal, Windermere
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11. This could only work if, together, we …
approach this in the right spirit
it’s very different from the existing system.
know this sort of system works in other parts of the country. Most similarly in London.
what about here?
click
two levels on which it needs to work.
as individual parishes – and for that matter as individual parishioners – will only work if we
give generously
only work if we approach it in the right spirit. A spirit of mutual support – helping each other - and of mutual accountablity – for what we give and what we receive
and will only work in the long term if we don’t simply look at it as an opportunity to reduce costs by reducing ministry. Sure we will see some changes as a result … will make us think harder about our individual parishes and how our clergy serve them. But can’t afford to make cuts just because it would make us feel good about reducing the amount we pay.
and it works on a second level, which is that…
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

12. This could only work if, together, we …
it’s very different from the existing system.
know this sort of system works in other parts of the country. Most similarly in London.
what about here?
click
two levels on which it needs to work.
as individual parishes – and for that matter as individual parishioners – will only work if we
give generously
only work if we approach it in the right spirit. A spirit of mutual support – helping each other - and of mutual accountablity – for what we give and what we receive
and will only work in the long term if we don’t simply look at it as an opportunity to reduce costs by reducing ministry. Sure we will see some changes as a result … will make us think harder about our individual parishes and how our clergy serve them. But can’t afford to make cuts just because it would make us feel good about reducing the amount we pay.
and it works on a second level, which is that…
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

13. A miser and a liar bargain quickly. Henry Boyle:
Greek Proverb:
A miser and a liar bargain quickly.
Henry Boyle:
The most important trip you may take in life is meeting people half way.
Battista, Orlando
The fellow who says he'll meet you halfway usually thinks he's standing on the dividing line.
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

14. This could only work if, together, we …
approach this in the right spirit
give generously
commit to Resourcing Revival …
… supporting each other
… being accountable to each other …
… for what we give and receive
it’s very different from the existing system.
know this sort of system works in other parts of the country. Most similarly in London.
what about here?
click
two levels on which it needs to work.
as individual parishes – and for that matter as individual parishioners – will only work if we
give generously
only work if we approach it in the right spirit. A spirit of mutual support – helping each other - and of mutual accountablity – for what we give and what we receive
and will only work in the long term if we don’t simply look at it as an opportunity to reduce costs by reducing ministry. Sure we will see some changes as a result … will make us think harder about our individual parishes and how our clergy serve them. But can’t afford to make cuts just because it would make us feel good about reducing the amount we pay.
and it works on a second level, which is that…
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

15. Parish Offering Proposals
Carlisle Diocese
Parish Offering Proposals
… time for discussion
Now it’s time for you to think about these proposals and discuss them.
Three questions to shape your discussion.
How would your parish respond to these proposals?
Could it work in your deanery?
How could the ideas be improved?
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16. How would your parish/team respond to these proposals?
Three questions …
How would your parish/team respond to these proposals?
Could it work in this deanery?
How could the ideas be improved?
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17. Parish Offering Proposals
Carlisle Diocese
Parish Offering Proposals
Local Consultation
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18. consider your comments from consultation
process from here
consider your comments from consultation
Diocesan Synod discussions … … November … March 07 (vote)
if agreed … … hope to use a new system for 2008 budget
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19. information and comments
website:
me at:
write to me at: church house, west walls, carlisle, ca3 8ue
leave your address/ with me tonight
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

20. Parish Offering Proposals
Carlisle Diocese
Parish Offering Proposals
Local Consultation
From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving

21. From Survival to Revival – worship, discipleship, ministry, mission, young people, giving