1. July 2010
doc.: IEEE /0xxxr0
IEEE 802 JTC1 Standing Committee Summary of SC6/IEEE 802 agreement issue
13 March 2012
Authors:
Andrew Myles, Cisco
Andrew Myles, Cisco

2. The proposal that only IEEE 802 “maintain, alter and extend” ISO/IEC 8802 standards was controversial
The IEEE 802 liaison indicated that IEEE 802 would be willing to submit standards (particularly and 802.3) to ISO/IEC under certain conditions
“…it is essential that ISO/IEC JTC1/SC6 agrees that the responsibility to maintain, alter or extend the functionality of IEEE 802 standards ratified by ISO/IEC remains solely with IEEE 802”
This condition was particularly controversial among most NBs
The main issue of contention appeared to revolve around the definition of “extend”; many NBs considered a restriction of extensions as limiting SC6’s ability to do their normal work
Andrew Myles, Cisco

3. The SC6 NBs had a variety of objections to the proposed IEEE condition
China NB will probably object
Stated that they believe it is based on a misinterpretation of “one standard worldwide”
Objected to the “alter” and “extend” conditions
Suspected it violates anti-trust laws – will need legal advuce
Suspected it contradicts ISO/IEC Directives – will need to ask staff
UK NB had some concerns
Stated it was unreasonable to limit “extensions” by SC6, on the basis that any document that normatively referenced an 8802 standard could be considered an extension
Swiss NB had not reviewed
Stated they had not seen the liaison in time
Andrew Myles, Cisco

4. SC6 ultimately decided on a process to help resolve issues related to the IEEE 802 proposal
Resolution 6.1.4
SC 6 instructs its Secretariat to forward the following liaison statement to IEEE 802:
“SC6 appreciates and acknowledges IEEE 802’s proposal (6N15106) for an agreement.
SC 6 will forward an initial list of related questions from its NBs and LO to IEEE 802 by
SC 6 requests a response and a draft MoU from IEEE 802 by A second list of questions will be provided to IEEE 802 by
SC 6 requests a response and updated MoU from IEEE 802 by ”
Approved unanimously
Andrew Myles, Cisco

5. Additional questions were received from two SC6 NBs by the 7 March deadline
Questions were received from China NB
Questions were received from Swiss NB
Andrew Myles, Cisco

6. The key issue appears to be the proposed limitation on “extensions”
Some NB interpreted extensions to mean anything that normatively referenced an ISO/IEC 8802 standard
ie anything that relied on an ISO/IEC 8802 standard
This probably was not the intent of the IEEE and WGs given that they would presumably like their standards to be used and referenced by other standards in the normal way
This suggests a tighter definition of “extend” is required to:
Meet the needs of IEEE and WGs
Mitigate the concerns of SC6 NBs
Andrew Myles, Cisco

7. The WAPI experience provides a good base on which to understand & define “extend”
Many people objected to WAPI for many reasons; one major objection was that it replaced integral elements of the IEEE specification
In particular, it did so by making changes to the IEEE standard in an uncontrolled way
eg WAPI made changes to element IDs, status codes and error codes without any reference to the IEEE ANA
eg the WAPI spec made changes to parts of the standards that were never intended to be changed by SDOs other than IEEE
This process would have diminished the ongoing integrity of IEEE by spreading the specification into multiple documents, under the control of different SDOs
The key problem with WAPI is that it made changes to IEEE by using internal, and sometimes undefined, interfaces in IEEE ; it did not use external, well defined interfaces!
Andrew Myles, Cisco

8. An “extension” could be defined as any specification that relies on 802 internal interfaces
An external interface is one that is explicitly defined for interfacing with other standards
eg MAC SAP ( , 5.2)
eg MLME SAP ( , 6.3)
An internal interface is one that is not an external interface
An “extension” to an IEEE 802 standard could then be defined as a specification that uses an internal interface of the IEEE 802 standard
This definition should make most parties happy
The UK NBs concern should be mitigated because appropriate normative referencing is possible
The IEEE and WG’s fears should be mitigated because they would retain sole responsibility for their standards
The China NB’s concerns may or may not be mitigated
Andrew Myles, Cisco

9. Could IEEE 802 object, using the proposed conditions, to:
A constraint on “extensions” to IEEE 802 standards will not allow IEEE 802 to object to replacements in SC6
ISO/IEC JTC1/SC6 is an independent SDO and should generally not be restricted from doing work that does not “maintain, alter or extend” IEEE 802 standards
This means that SC6 would be free to define complete replacements for IEEE 802 standards and long as they did not “alter or extend” them
Could IEEE 802 object, using the proposed conditions, to:
EUHT, which is a competitor to ac No
TLSec and TePA-AC , which are competitors to 802.1X/AE No
UHT, which is an extension of n
Yes
WAPI, which is an extension to
Yes
Andrew Myles, Cisco

10. IEEE 802 JTC1 SC has recommended answers to SC6 questions and a draft agreement
Motion
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC recommends to IEEE 802 EC that:
Pages of 0299r6 be liaised to SC6 as responses to the questions from SC6 in N15226 and N15227, pending review and modification by IEEE SA of the answer to the question on page 63
The draft agreement on page 72 of 0299r6 be liaised to SC6
Bruce Kraemer be given authority to make editorial changes before arranging for the liaison of the final versions of the answers and draft agreement
Moved: Mike Montemurro
Seconded: Dorothy Stanley
Vote: 7/0/0 (motion passes)
Note: the page numbers refer to 11/ r6; the page numbers in following slides are in top left corner
Andrew Myles, Cisco

11. The IEEE 802 developed a draft SC6/IEEE 802 agreement
IEEE 802 and SC6 agree that:
Best practice indicates a single SDO should have responsibility for developing or maintaining a standard, albeit in cooperation with all relevant stakeholders
IEEE 802 will have sole responsibility for developing, maintaining, altering and extending all IEEE 802 standards and any ISO/IEC 8802 equivalents
An extension is defined as functionality that makes use of internal interfaces in an IEEE 802 standard not intended for use by other SDOs
SC6 may request clarification from IEEE 802 as to whether a particular interface in an IEEE 802 standard is an internal interface
SC6 may request that IEEE 802 define any external interfaces required to enable SC6 to define additional functionality for ISO/IEC 8802 standards
IEEE 802 will consult with SC6 as necessary to produce IEEE 802 standards and their ISO/IEC 8802 equivalents that reflect the needs of a broad range of stakeholders
Andrew Myles, Cisco

12. S52
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from Swiss NB
At what stage(s) and for what comment period will the IEEE 802 group provide drafts for comment, and how will IEEE handle the comments resolution?
Answer from IEEE 802
For standards that are going to be submitted to ISO/IEC JTC1 for fast-track adoption under the PSDO agreement, the IEEE 802 WGs will provide drafts to SC6 as soon as those drafts are sent to IEEE Sponsor Ballot. This is the process that has been used by IEEE WG over the last year or so. In some cases, the IEEE 802 WGs may provide drafts to SC6 at earlier stages of their development cycle.
... continued
Andrew Myles, Cisco

13. S52
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Answer from IEEE 802 (continued)
IEEE 802 WGs are required to consider and resolve comments on drafts received from any source. It is more likely any comments will have an impact on the draft development if they are provided within the IEEE Sponsor Ballot timeframes. However, the IEEE 802 WGs will also consider and resolve comments received after these deadlines. If comments are received too late to be considered during the development of a standard then they will be considered during the maintenance process.
Andrew Myles, Cisco

14. S53
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from Swiss NB
Does the IEEE 802 group grant SC6 the right to develop standards competing with and making reference to IEEE 802 standards?
Answer from IEEE 802
IEEE 802 has no position on granting any rights to other SDOs.
However, IEEE 802 would like agreement that SC6 will not develop standards that maintain, alter or extend existing IEEE 802 standards.
In this context “extend” means to define functionality that makes use of internal interfaces in the IEEE 802 standards. These internal interfaces were never intended to support parallel changes by multiple SDOs.
... continued
Andrew Myles, Cisco

15. S53
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Answer from IEEE 802 (continued)
The restriction on maintenance, alterations and extensions is beneficial to the entire industry because it promotes the ongoing integrity of IEEE 802 standards by focusing ongoing development in a single SDO, thus supporting continuing interoperability.
Of course, IEEE 802 has no objections to any SDO defining new functionality and standards that reference IEEE 802 standards in a way that makes use of the external interfaces to IEEE 802 standards. These interfaces were defined for exactly this purpose.
SC6 is encouraged to ask IEEE 802 for clarification as to whether a particular interface is internal or external. SC6 may also request that IEEE 802 define any external interfaces required to enable work in SC6
Andrew Myles, Cisco

16. S54
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from Swiss NB
How shall project editors for IEEE 802 standards in the scope of SC6 submitted to ISO be installed to conform to IEEE requirements as well as to the ISO/IEC Directives and the JTC1 Supplements?
Answer from IEEE 802
IEEE 802 will submit IEEE 802 standards for ISO/IEC ratification using the PSDO fast track process. Under this process no technical or maintenance work is required in SC6; therefore there is no need for an SC6 Project Editor to be appointed. An ISO/IEC staff editor is responsible for the publication process.
Andrew Myles, Cisco

17. S55
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from Swiss NB
Would the IEEE 802 group be ready to comment on New Work Item Proposals and standard drafts received from SC6?
Answer from IEEE 802
Yes, IEEE 802 is always ready to comment on any documents received from SC6 within the scope of IEEE 802.
In recent times, IEEE 802 has demonstrated its willingness to comment on SC6 documents on multiple occasions including documents related to:
WAPI
TLSec
TePA-AC
UHT/EUHT
Andrew Myles, Cisco

18. S56
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from Swiss NB
Would the IEEE 802 group be ready to participate to joint Study Groups and projects?
Answer from IEEE 802
IEEE 802 is always willing to work with other SDOs, including SC6, in joint study groups or projects where it provides value for all parties. However, evaluations of value must be undertaken based on the merits of each proposal.
Andrew Myles, Cisco

19. S57
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC will discuss possible answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from China NB
Will IEEE agree to state in the agreement that SC6 may propose to revise the ISO/IEC standards originated in IEEE?
Answer from IEEE 802
Note: this question is answered from the perspective of IEEE 802 and not IEEE.
Under the PSDO agreement between ISO and IEEE, SC6 is able to make a proposal to revise an ISO/IEC 8802 standard derived from an IEEE 802 standard. On this basis, there is no need to reiterate this possibility in any new agreement between SC6 and IEEE 802.
... continued
Andrew Myles, Cisco

20. S57
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Answer from IEEE 802 (continued)
However, IEEE 802 is unlikely to agree to any proposal for SC6 to revise an ISO/IEC 8802 standard because we believe it is better for IEEE 802 revisions and their ISO/IEC 8802 equivalents to be developed within IEEE 802 using our normal processes. We note that under the PSDO, copyright permission would be required from IEEE before SC6 could undertake any revision independently
Andrew Myles, Cisco

21. S58
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from China NB
Document 6N15106 requests that the right to “extend the functionality of IEEE 802 standards ratified by ISO/IEC remains solely with IEEE 802. What does it mean to “extend the functionality?” Please provide examples and consider how this clause would impact on technology innovation and the principle of open standards.
Answer from IEEE 802
IEEE 802 is requesting that SC6 does not “extend the functionality of IEEE 802 standards”.
IEEE 802 defines an “extension” as additional functionality that makes use of internal interfaces in the IEEE 802 standards. These internal interfaces were never intended to support changes by multiple SDOs.
... continued
Andrew Myles, Cisco

22. S59
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Answer from IEEE 802 (continued)
Other SDOs are encouraged to make use of external interfaces in IEEE 802 standards. For example, an external interface in IEEE is the MAC SAP
SC6 is encouraged to ask IEEE 802 for clarification as to whether a particular interface is an external interface. SC6 may also request IEEE 802 to define additional external interfaces to enable work in SC6..
WAPI is an example of an “extension” that requires the use of internal IEEE interfaces and so falls within the responsibility of IEEE 802. EUHT and TLSec would probably be defined as independent competitors to existing IEEE 802 standards and thus would not be covered by the proposed agreement.
The restriction on SC6 developing extensions of IEEE 802 standards has no impact on innovation because the innovations can still occur within IEEE 802’s open and transparent standards development process.
Andrew Myles, Cisco

23. S60
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Questions from China NB
Would IEEE believe that other ISO/IEC member bodies would enjoy the same rights claimed by IEEE?
Answer from IEEE 802
Note: this question is answered from the perspective of IEEE 802.
IEEE 802 is asserting the sole responsibility to maintain, alter and extend standards developed by IEEE 802. This is consistent with the widely understood best practice that a single organisation should have sole responsibility for developing or maintaining standards, albeit in cooperation with other stakeholders. This principle supports the ongoing integrity of the standard.
Andrew Myles, Cisco

24. S61
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from China NB
Will IEEE object to ISO/IEC standard and project proposals making normative references to ISO/IEC standards originated from IEEE (IIIS)?
Answer from IEEE 802
Note: this question is answered from the perspective of IEEE 802
IEEE 802 encourages any SDO or other organisation to make normative references to ISO/IEC 8802 standards derived from IEEE 802 standards.
However, in making such references, those SDOs and other organisations should respect the ongoing integrity of the standards by only using the interfaces defined in the standards that are intended for external use.
SC6 is encouraged to ask IEEE 802 for clarification as to whether a particular interface is internal or external. SC6 may also request IEEE 802 to define any external interfaces required to enable work in SC6.
Andrew Myles, Cisco

25. S62
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from China NB
Will IEEE allow ISO/IEC standards to make normative references to IEEE only standards that have not and will not be submitted to ISO/IEC for international standardization?
Answer from IEEE 802
Note: this question is answered from the perspective of IEEE 802.
IEEE 802 encourages ISO/IEC to make normative references to IEEE 802 standards.
However, in making such references, ISO/IEC should respect the ongoing integrity of the IEEE 802 standards by only using the interfaces defined in the IEEE 802 standards that are intended for external use.
SC6 is encouraged to ask IEEE 802 for clarification as to whether a particular interface is internal or external. SC6 may also request IEEE 802 to define any external interfaces required to enable work in SC6..
Andrew Myles, Cisco

26. S63
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from China NB
Can national standards adopt IEEE originated ISO/IEC standards into national standards with modifications for suit for local needs?
Answer from IEEE 802
Note: this question is answered from the perspective of IEEE 802
ISO/IEC member bodies may adopt ISO/IEC 8802 standards modified to suit local needs as national standards. However, such national standards cannot be considered or proposed as international standards without permission from the IEEE. They must also maintain the IEEE copyright notices in the national standard version. It is worthwhile noting that the IPR statements made to IEEE in relation to the IEEE 802 standard will not apply to the modified national standard.
Andrew Myles, Cisco

27. S64
The IEEE 802 JTC1 SC developed answers to the SC6 in relation to the proposed agreement
Question from China NB
What would IEEE do if IEEE’s standards in development are found having contradictions with existing ISO/IEC standards?
Answer from IEEE 802
Note: this question is answered from the perspective of IEEE 802
“Contradictions” is not defined clearly in the ISO/IEC Directives and so the IEEE 802 are unable to comment on this aspect of the question. We would appreciate clarification of the question.
Andrew Myles, Cisco