1. Discussion of: “The Relationship between Internal Audit and Information Security: An Exploratory Investigation” Severin Grabski Michigan State University 2011 UWCISA Symposium Toronto, Canada

2. Stated Objective Investigate the nature of the relationship between information security and internal audit Important – Critical component of Corporate Governance Motivation needs to be more than “no empirical research exists”

3. Tasks Accomplished Established that the IA role has been generally ignored in the literature Conducted semi-structured interviews with IA and IS security professionals Identified factors that impact the nature of the relationship between IA and IS functions

4. But… Had sense of concern

5. Proposed Model

6. IA vs. IS Control View IA Control objective o Preventive o Detective o Corrective IA Review o Monitoring – Detective IS Stage of attempted penetration o Configuration – (Preventive) o Access - (Preventive) o Monitoring – (Detective) What’s missing? What happened to Corrective?

7. Proposed Model

8. But… “…no empirical research investigating how well the two functions work together.” (p.5) Proposed Model - Never addresses Role of IA and IS How Should IA and IS Interact? o Model only shows tasks and how they are reviewed Is there Theory for this Interaction?

9. SOX & IT Governance Case Study of Charles Schwab Corporation (Damianides 2005) Top management sought improved IT Governance Framework o IA recommended COBIT o Improve IS controls o Enhance IT & Business Processes o Map audits to COBIT On a high level, this shows units working together

10. Proposed Model

11. But… (p. 131)??

12. So How Did This Proposed Model Occur?

13. From Here! Includes Monitoring & Documentation

14. Basis for Proposed Model

15. But… Ransbotham & Mitra (2009) Model is about external attacks on an organization – information security compromise process How does this relate to “Internal” Controls? How does this relate to securing the system from the “Innocent Incompetent”?

16. Proposed Model

17. So How Did We Get Figure 3?

18. Proposed Model NEVER TESTED!

19. I Got Lost! I Need a Map I Need a THEORY

20. Where’s the Theory? While there has not been any study of IA and IS working together, there has been many studies of organizations and institutional structure Possible theory – Neo-institutional Theory

21. Should be used for studying IT security issues in organizations (Bjorck 2004) o Can be used to explain differences in formal and actual security behavior o Can be used to explain why formal security structures are created and not fully implemented Can be used to explain how institutional factors influence the behavior of individuals (Hu et al. 2007)

22. Neo-institutional Theory Organizations are structured by phenomena in institutional environment and become isomorphic with them Two parts Institutionalism Isomorphism

23. Institutionalism Process in which components of formal structure become accepted, and are seen as appropriate and needed Decision to adopt depends upon whether the innovation will improve internal processes

24. Isomorphism Explains how institutional structures and practices propagate among organizations o Coercive Isomorphism (External pressure) o Mimetic Isomorphism (Imitation) Software selection (Tingling & Parent 2002) o Normative Isomorphism (Professionalism) Mediating role of top management in ES assimilation (Liang et al. 2007)

25. Benefit of Theory Guide formulation of constructs & interview questions Focus does not need to be on testing neo-institutional theory Focus can be on extending theory Could still use case-based approach

26. Research Instrument Discuss “perceived inequality” o Never appears in research instrument o What does appear is “Working Relationship” Suggest that “Organizational Characteristics” impact relationship o “Working Relationship,” “Audit Demographics,” and “IT Demographics” are used

27. Setting - Education Concern about Security o More or less in Education than Business? o Many Laws (FERPA, GLBA, PCI, HIPPA, States also have laws/penalties for data disclosure, etc.) impact Universities Manuscript states that security was not an overarching strategic factor. How can security not be a major concern?

28. Research Method Good Approach Did the participants get the opportunity to review the transcripts and correct errors/omissions? Need to state in the Research Method section that an IA and IS security person were interviewed at institutions that did not outsource IA (information is only in Table 1)

29. Findings Technical Knowledge o Tech knowledge  deeper relationships o Or is it that they know the correct questions to ask and can bring value to the IS team? Communication Skills o If IA explains what & why, than IS is cooperative Auditor’s Perception of the Role of IA vis-à-vis Information Security

30. Findings Does Technical Knowledge Result in Improved Communication Skills & Result in Increased Cooperation with IS?

31. IS perceived top management to be very supportive of information security but, adequate resources were not necessarily forthcoming (in Not For Profit)

32. Findings How can IS and IA work smarter with fewer (limited) resources?

33. For Profit Budgetary Support Incentive for Audit Compliance Why? CEO, CFO Security Issues Related to Financial Results IT Corporate Governance

34. Relationships Matter IS IA

35. Relationships Matter A collaborative relationship between the internal audit and information systems security functions increases user compliance, improves the effectiveness of internal audit (P6 A&B) More interesting question: How is a collaborative relationship established?

36. Additional Survey Interviewed CIO o IA was “bad guy” in the past o IA had stringent standards o Didn’t understand that IT Security is situational (practical, unsecure to totally secure but impractical) SSN need high security Other stuff can be wide-open o Had to work with IA to be “practical” Could not apply all of COBIT all the time! o IA acts like an extra set of eyes & ears Working smarter

37. Additional Survey IA did not want to disclose standards used in audit o Releasing audit standards viewed as “teaching to the test” o Needed to get shared understanding of standards  good practices IS can now share these good practices Facilitates audit IS can help invent technologies to meet new standards, e.g., PCI, etc.

38. Additional Survey IA tells IS the annual audit plan IS uses IA for help garnering additional resources o Card Lock system for Server Rooms o Expanded for Physical Security across campus CIO & IA Director have mutual respect This “Top Management” directly influences the other IA and IS unit employees

39. Summary Need clear evolutionary path from literature to Figure 2 to Figure 3 Theory Gap between questions in research instrument and issues identified in the manuscript Relationship to ERM Operationalize Constructs Model Specified Correctly?

40. Closing Comments Enjoyed manuscript Do we know if the proposed model (Figure 3) would change if the IA and IS were viewed as belonging to o “High performing” organizations? o “Low performing” organizations?