1. 29th March 20031 What are Discrete Degrees? Ian Thompson, Physics Dept., University of Surrey Talk to the Swedenborg Society: Spring Meeting, 29th March 2003

2. 29th March 20032 Importance of Discrete Degrees A knowledge of discrete degrees is needed for understanding the differences between:  the three heavens,  the love and wisdom of the angels in them,  the warmth and light that they possess,  the interior faculties of the mind,  reformation and regeneration,  something spiritual and something natural. Swedenborg: Divine Love and Wisdom, §185

3. 29th March 20033 Our ideas of Discrete Degrees The ideas we each have are many and various! So the purpose of this talk:  to look at typical ideas often held,  to clarify any misconceptions,  to suggest new ways of looking at discrete degrees,  contrast them with continuous degrees.

4. 29th March 20034 Kinds of Explanations we like? We are happier with explanations giving:  integrated view of natural and spiritual worlds,  unified view of a continuous whole & no gaps,  democratic rather than hierarchical levels,  simple pictures of what we need to know. BUT, Swedenborg reminds us:  there are discrete degrees, and  there are distinctions of divine, spirit & nature.

5. 29th March 20035 How we Form our First Ideas Our initial ideas are all based on ideas that we can obtain from our senses. So  we use images obtained from sensations of space and time,  spatial and temporal images attach themselves to our ideas of discrete degrees, Spaces & times must not dominate our ideas!  though space and time images often correspond to discrete degrees.

6. 29th March 20036 Imagining Discrete Degrees Discrete degrees have been imagined in many different ways:  spatial images  time & frequency  states of nature  inside and outside  bounded and unbounded Qualitative differences:  do they make discrete degrees?

7. 29th March 20037 What are Discrete Degrees? Continuous Degrees:  like the degrees of the waning of light from a bright blaze until it is obscured, or  like the degrees of the decrease of vision from objects in the light to those in the shade, or  like degrees of purity of the atmosphere from its depths to its highest point. Discrete Degrees:  like prior and posterior,  like cause and effect, or  like what produces and what is produced.  exist distinctly  influx by correspondences MAY be continuously transformed into each other. Can NOT be continuously transformed into each other. HH 38

8. 29th March 20038 Natural things with discrete units: Are these discrete degrees? Ladder Multi-storey house Human body

9. 29th March 20039 Discrete, or Images of Discrete? Houses, ladders, bodies, all represent different discrete degrees by correspondences.  BUT: from looking at human bodies, as from biology alone, we do not thereby understand what are spiritual degrees. Houses etc represent:  in simultaneous order of continuous degrees what are discrete degrees in ‘successive order’.

10. 29th March 200310 The whole and its parts the body is the parts, the soul is the whole organism ? Perhaps: But: the soul would be an aggregation of bodies! which controls which?

11. 29th March 200311 Expanded Consciousness Expanded or Cosmic consciousness as the spiritual?  Dynamics of mind is expansion, contraction. But: size is continuous!

12. 29th March 200312 Elevated Consciousness Higher vs low-level awareness?  Dynamics of mind is elevation & depression. But: height is continuous!

13. 29th March 200313 The Fourth Dimension?

14. 29th March 200314 Another Spatial Dimension? Are physical and mental different dimensions? From J.R. Smythies, 1967 But:  Rotations continuously transform between dimensions!

15. 29th March 200315 New Vibrational Frequencies? Is a ‘new vibrational level’, or a ‘new harmonic’ a discrete degree? But: time is continuous, and so are vibrational rates! From Swedenborg, we say:  vibrations are a temporal images,  seen in and from the senses

16. 29th March 200316 Harmonics and Resonances Are discrete degrees one of  Vibrational harmonics?  Energy levels of atoms? But: resonances are different time frequencies, And: intermediate rates are possible (see figures)

17. 29th March 200317 Infinite Time — No Time ? Endless time? All times are Present? Heavenly eternity is the source of all succession of states, not all states together, and not lack of succession

18. 29th March 200318 Successive Stages? Images of waterfalls or emanations are often used to represent ‘successive discrete degrees’: Swedenborg often uses calls discrete degrees: ‘successive degrees’. True, but this is another representation using ‘time’. Still ‘simultaneous’ in some senses!

19. 29th March 200319 States of Matter? Earth, Water, Air, Fire? Solids, Liquids, Gases? Fine & Subtle Matter? Matter & Electricity? Positive & Negative Charges? Are these Discrete Degrees? Polarities are at the same natural degree.

20. 29th March 200320 Inside and Outside Inmost, Internal, Outer? First-person and third- person views? Is our mind the way we are inside, and our body our outside? Is our mind the way we see ourselves, and our body the way others see us? ANDREW MARC SAMUELS

21. 29th March 200321 Self-similarity But: self-similarity as such does not define the spiritual. “Parts are similar in form to the whole” seen in Chaos Theory. Also occurs in the spiritual world:  Man is an image of the heavens, and  the heavens are an image of God.

22. 29th March 200322 Are ANY pictures suitable? We need to separate our understanding, in some way, from natural and sensual images. This separation may never be complete on earth, but: let us at least be aware of the way we presently think. Let us try to form some more positive accounts …...

23. 29th March 200323 To understand discrete degrees: build on and extrapolate what discrete degrees discovered by physics and philosophy, or rely on our own intuitive understandings of causes and effects in ourselves, or rely on revelation from the Lord to guide us over a difficult phase.  Preferably, some combination of the above!

24. 29th March 200324 Heat and Light (?) Strictly: are parts of the same spectrum of electromagnetic radiation: BUT:  Heat = energy in general (not just radiation)  Light = form of energy conveying information Energy and Information are discrete degrees.  Light is a particular form of energy.

25. 29th March 200325 Discrete Pairs from Physics Classical Mechanics:  Force and Motion  Potential Energy and Force Quantum Physics:  Waves and Particles  Propensities and Events Quantum Fields:  Virtual and Actual Processes

26. 29th March 200326 Form and Substance For any idea a person forms, however lofty, is substantial, that is, attached to substances. No substance can exist without being a form. Nor is there such a thing as an unformed substance, since nothing can be predicated of it, A subject without predicated qualities is also an irrational entity. (CL 66)

27. 29th March 200327 End, Cause and Effect Ends are in the first degree, causes in the second, and effects in the third.  the end is not the cause, but that it produces the cause,  the cause is not the effect, but that it produces the effect; So: they are three distinct things following in order --  The end with man is the love of his will, for what a man loves, this he proposes to himself and intends;  the cause with him is the reason of his understanding, for by means of it the end seeks for mediate or efficient causes; and  the effect is the operation of the body from them. ISB 17

28. 29th March 200328 Affection, understanding, action Discrete degrees within the spiritual:  Affection from love,  Understanding from wisdom,  Action from both these.

29. 29th March 200329 Soul, mind and nature Or: Discrete degrees -  Love in the Soul,  Thoughts in the Mind,  Actions in Nature. Love and thoughts (soul and mind) not in space, only the appearance of space. Do we see Soul, Mind and Nature as layers of material in space?? Which?

30. 29th March 200330 Love, Wisdom and Use In the Divine, these are:  Father, Son and Spirit.  Can these be put together in one picture?

31. 29th March 200331 Conclusions Many natural degrees are continuous and not discrete as often thought  eg those from space, time, matter, … Other natural degrees are discrete, so helpful to understand other degrees  eg substance/form, energy/information, … Still need insight and help to understand the important spiritual/natural discrete degrees!

32. 29th March 200332 References to more details Theistic Science website:  www.TheisticScience.org My home page at Surrey University:  www.ph.surrey.ac.uk/~phs1it/ Discrete Degrees (article)  www.TheisticScience.org/discrete_degrees.html This talk:  www.TheisticScience.org/talks/dd/