1. “Effective Talk for Learning: Teaching through dialogue” David Reedy david.reedy@lbbd.gov.uk

2.  To summarise some interesting and relevant research concerning effective talk for learning, including dialogue  To discuss an example of classroom discourse and identify key features of cognitively challenging conversations  To describe a CPD project which has led to demonstrable positive changes to classroom discourse

3. ‘Language is the essential condition of knowing, the process by which experience becomes knowledge.’ M.A.K.Halliday (1993)

4. Teacher/pupil talk  ‘It is in the talk between teacher and pupil that education is done or fails to be done’ Edwards and Mercer (1987)

5. The transcript Year 3, Term 3, English Lesson objectives: Compare two stories. Evaluate two stories which have been read and justify preferences The upside down mice At the zoo The following dialogue is from the conclusion to the lesson, following structured, paired discussion

6. The transcript TEACHER: Jack, please tell us which story you preferred and why…

7. The transcript TEACHER: Jack, please tell us which story you preferred and why… JACK: I preferred At the Zoo because it was very mysterious and you didn’t find out what was looking at what until the very end because when I first heard the story I thought there were some new arriving animals and the children were looking at them for a school project but at the end I found that these aliens were actually looking at humans at the zoo and the humans were the new arrivals…

8. The transcript TEACHER: Jack, please tell us which story you preferred and why… JACK: I preferred At the Zoo because it was very mysterious and you didn’t find out what was looking at what until the very end because when I first head the story I thought there were some new arriving animals and the children were looking at them for a school project but at the end I found that these aliens were actually looking at humans at the zoo and the humans were the new arrivals… TEACHER: The story sounds very confusing. When did you understand that the children were in the cages?

9. The transcript TEACHER: Jack, please tell us which story you preferred and why… JACK: I preferred At the Zoo because it was very mysterious and you didn’t find out what was looking at what until the very end because when I first head the story I thought there were some new arriving animals and the children were looking at them for a school project but at the end I found that these aliens were actually looking at humans at the zoo and the humans were the new arrivals… TEACHER: The story sounds very confusing. When did you understand that the children were in the cages? JACK: Oh, not until the very end. In fact, the first time I read it I didn’t get it at all. It took two readings and then I thought, ‘Now I know what’s going on!’

10. The transcript TEACHER: Jack, please tell us which story you preferred and why… JACK: I preferred At the Zoo because it was very mysterious and you didn’t find out what was looking at what until the very end because when I first head the story I thought there were some new arriving animals and the children were looking at them for a school project but at the end I found that these aliens were actually looking at humans at the zoo and the humans were the new arrivals… TEACHER: The story sounds very confusing. When did you understand that the children were in the cages? JACK: Oh, not until the very end. In fact, the first time I read it I didn’t get it at all. It took two readings and then I thought, ‘Now I know what’s going on!’ TEACHER: But on our list of What makes a book worth reading that we wrote earlier, we put ‘EASY TO READ’. At the Zoo doesn’t sound like it was an easy story if you had to read it twice to understand it…

11. The transcript TEACHER: Jack, please tell us which story you preferred and why… JACK: I preferred At the Zoo because it was very mysterious and you didn’t find out what was looking at what until the very end because when I first head the story I thought there were some new arriving animals and the children were looking at them for a school project but at the end I found that these aliens were actually looking at humans at the zoo and the humans were the new arrivals… TEACHER: The story sounds very confusing. When did you understand that the children were in the cages? JACK: Oh, not until the very end. In fact, the first time I read it I didn’t get it at all. It took two readings and then I thought, ‘Now I know what’s going on!’ TEACHER: But on our list of What makes a book worth reading that we wrote earlier, we put ‘EASY TO READ’. At the Zoo doesn’t sound like it was an easy story if you had to read it twice to understand it… JACK: Yes, but the words were easy. The story wasn’t. The story was a mystery and I like mysteries, so that is why I like At the Zoo better

12. The transcript TEACHER: Jack, please tell us which story you preferred and why… JACK: I preferred At the Zoo because it was very mysterious and you didn’t find out what was looking at what until the very end because when I first head the story I thought there were some new arriving animals and the children were looking at them for a school project but at the end I found that these aliens were actually looking at humans at the zoo and the humans were the new arrivals… TEACHER: The story sounds very confusing. When did you understand that the children were in the cages? JACK: Oh, not until the very end. In fact, the first time I read it I didn’t get it at all. It took two readings and then I thought, ‘Now I know what’s going on!’ TEACHER: But on our list of What makes a book worth reading that we wrote earlier, we put ‘EASY TO READ’. At the Zoo doesn’t sound like it was an easy story if you had to read it twice to understand it… JACK: Yes, but the words were easy. The story wasn’t. The story was a mystery and I like mysteries, so that is why I like At the Zoo better TEACHER: So Jack prefers At the Zoo. What about you, Karen?

13. What makes this an interesting exchange?  An example of ‘dialogic teaching’:

14. Teachers’ language matters  Effective teaching talk has particular characteristics

15. Types of teaching talk The repertoire  Rote  Recitation  Exposition  Discussion  Dialogue Based on the work of Robin Alexander (2006) Based on the work of Robin Alexander (2006)

16. Principles and characteristics of dialogic talk  Achieving common understanding through structured and cumulative questioning and discussion. There may, or may not, be a right answer but justification and explanation are sought.  Pupils’ thinking is challenged and so understanding is enhanced. The teacher is likely to share several exchanges with a particular child several times in order to move the thinking on.  The pupil’s response is the fulcrum of the exchange.  ‘Conversations with cognitive challenge’

17. What seems to matter?

18. Ethos matters  Classroom ethos, ones where collaboration/ sustained shared thinking/dialogue can take place, is created though the way teachers converse with pupils  Notice how this teacher is listening very carefully to what the pupil says and builds directly on his answer with comments as well as further questions. She thus sends the message that what he says is at the heart of the conversation about learning and that it is a collaborative process.

19. ‘The pupil’s response is the fulcrum of the exchange’  listening carefully to pupils voices and responding to what those voices reveal lies at the heart of productive teaching and learning.

20. Vocabulary matters  Attention to explicit vocabulary building should be an integral part of teachers’ planning

21. Context matters  The contexts teachers create are crucial for encouraging productive uses of talk ‘Knowledge is developed in the discourse between people doing interesting things together’ Gordon Wells (1999).

22. Pupil voice matters  Do we as teachers really give pupils an opportunity to talk and do we LISTEN to what they say?

23. Martyn Nystand’s research Nystrand et al (2003) ‘ the most common purpose for classroom discourse was to recall and display assigned information to report on what was already known.’(p.139) even though there is a strong and statistically significant association between student achievement and the extent to which classroom discourse moved away from recitation to classroom discourse that recruited and highlighted student ideas and voices as indicated by : even though there is a strong and statistically significant association between student achievement and the extent to which classroom discourse moved away from recitation to classroom discourse that recruited and highlighted student ideas and voices as indicated by :  proportion of authentic teacher questions,  extent of uptake, for example follow up questions,  time devoted to discussion. Discussion had a particularly large effect, especially striking because there was so little of it.

24. Martyn Nystrand ( cont )  In his review of research in 2006 he repeated the importance of these indicators, defining them as discourse moves which led to a shift in classroom talk into cognitively challenging dialogue

25. ‘Discourse moves’ This shift is encouraged in classrooms when:  the teacher asks more authentic questions,  the teacher responds to the content of the pupil’s answer when replying (‘uptake’)  pupils have opportunities to ask questions,  there is time devoted to discussion ‘student questions had the strongest effect of all’.

26. A question from a Y6 pupil  What does the question reveal?  How would you respond to the question?  How would your response help develop the understanding of the pupils and that of his classmates?

27. Learning talk matters  There is a range of effective learning talk that teachers can plan for pupils to use

28. Eleven Kinds of Learning Talk  Narrate  Instruct  Ask different kinds of question  Perceive, build upon answers  Analyse, solve problems  Speculate and imagine  Explore and evaluate ideas  Discuss  Argue or Defend a Position  Negotiate Robin Alexander Culture and Pedagogy ( 2000)

29. ‘Exploratory talk’  Pupils engage critically but constructively with each other's ideas. They may make proposals which can be challenged and counter-challenged, but if so they have to give their reasons and offer alternatives. Based on N. Mercer (2000) Based on N. Mercer (2000)

30. ‘Exploratory talk’  Exploratory talk provides pupils with an opportunity to extend their thinking and their learning through talk and through engaging with others' ideas in a supportive but challenging setting.  Exploratory talk can operate equally in a whole- class setting or in small groups or pairs and where arrangements and guidance for dialogic talk can operate. Based on N. Mercer (2000) Based on N. Mercer (2000)

31. ‘Ground Rules For Exploratory Talk’ ( developed from Mercer, Dawes, et al 2003)  Each person should be invited to speak  Everyone should listen carefully  Reasons should be asked for, and given  Agreement and disagreement are accepted as part of the discussion  Members of the group respect each others opinions and ideas  All information is shared  The group seeks to reach agreement before reaching a decision.

32. Principles exemplified ( developed from Mercer and Littlejohn 2007) Everybody should contribute/gets a turn to talk What do you think? What is your idea? Group members should ask each other for their ideas and opinions. What do you think? Why do you think that? Disagreement is healthy but group members should listen carefully and respect each others views and opinions. Those are good reasons but I’m not sure about that idea because…. Group members should give reasons for their opinions/views and be asked for them if appropriate What evidence do you have for saying that? The group seeks to reach agreement before reaching a decision So do we all agree that….?

33. Teaching talk: can do better  How can classroom cultures where IRE/recitation exchanges dominate be changed?  How can we best support and develop teachers’ understanding of effective teaching/learning talk?

34. Teachers moving forward: A Case Study Marks Gate Infant School Dagenham

35. The key questions we have been working on!  How do we work together to increase the amount of productive talk in classrooms?  How do we know when the talk has been productive?

36. Working with teachers; methodology  Practitioner action research/lesson study  Supported by researchers/advisers  Sustained work over time  Whole school/group of motivated teachers

37.  Audio recording  Video recording  Transcripts  Teachers’ annotations of transcripts  Focus group discussions  Team teaching and observation  Staff meetings

38. Preliminary Steps  Identification by the school of the issue to address  Lessons from research – input from adviser/researcher

39. Starting points :a short self evaluation checklist for reflection  Did your opening question/comment give rise to thoughtful extended answers rather than simple recall?  Did pupils have an opportunity to discuss in pairs/small/large groups?  Did pupils have an opportunity to formulate and ask questions?  Did you respond to pupils’ answer and build conversations over 2 or more exchanges?  Where your responses a mixture of questions, comments and statements, some of which were designed to challenge thinking?  Did the pupils’ talk show that their thinking had moved on?

40. Discussing transcripts and reflecting on teaching and learning  What evidence is there that the child has learned something?  How could I have moved learning on more effectively?  What would have been a better thing to have said at xx point?  What will be the next step for me in my classroom?

41. The teacher talk: bathing the baby Read the transcript and consider:  What makes this an interesting exchange?  What has the teacher done to make this productive conversation happen- what matters?

42. Transcript : Reception Bath time-Children are bathing a doll in warm water, after a whole class introduction of the topic

43. T Child 1 T. Child 2 T. Child 1 T. Child 3 T Child 2 T. Child 2 T. Child 2 T. Child 3 T. Child 3 T. Child 3 T. Child 3 T. Child 2 T. Child 2 What are we going to do first with this baby? We’re gonna put him in the bath. Right ok. Shall we put him in face down like that? ( Goes to put baby in bath face down) No, no that’s bad! Why, what’s wrong, why can’t I do that? He might cry. I suppose he might cry. Get water in his eyes. He could. I wonder if there are any other bits of his face that might get water in them? His lips. Ah! He’s gonna open his mouth and then he’s gonna get water. Right….Do you think he’ll be able to breathe with water in his mouth? No. Do you know what it is called when you go in water and you can’t breathe? (children look blank)… It’s called drowning. My dad done that, went under water. He went under the water did he? But he ain’t dead. I’m glad he’s not dead! He was sick. He was very lucky then, wasn’t he? (Nods) Right shall we put this baby in the bath then? Put him in face up. So he doesn’t get…what was that word Miss? Drowned. Yeah, so he don’t get drowned

44. Teachers moving forward  What does the SLT and the teachers say has been the impact?

45. What did the teachers say had changed…  In their own pedagogical practice ‘I use talk much more frequently, but I also think more about why and then target/focus the talk’ Reception class teacher ‘I use talk much more frequently, but I also think more about why and then target/focus the talk’ Reception class teacher ‘ I feel my questioning within teaching has improved greatly. I feel I can now use effective questioning to bridge and extend children’s learning.’ Y2 teacher ‘ I feel my questioning within teaching has improved greatly. I feel I can now use effective questioning to bridge and extend children’s learning.’ Y2 teacher ‘I now give children more time and confidence when they answer questions or respond to comments. I don’t repeat children’s answers.’ Reception class teacher ‘I now give children more time and confidence when they answer questions or respond to comments. I don’t repeat children’s answers.’ Reception class teacher

46. What did the teachers say had changed…  In class ‘Children are really engaging with each other and listening and responding to each other ( within large group work) without adult intervention’. Y1 teacher ‘Pupil to pupil talk has become much more valuable to me ‘ Y2 teacher

47. What seems to matter?  What seems to matter to teachers to help them move their practice forward?

48. What did the teachers say were of most benefit to their own professional development?  Meeting on a regular basis over a long period of time  Using transcripts from their own classrooms to reflect on the talk and setting personal targets to work on  Discussing with a group of trusted colleagues within school  Sharing work and ideas with other schools which are interested in the same area

49.  ‘ Talking through opportunities we have done we get the opportunity to see where our dialogue could have been improved. This provides us with valuable new knowledge and understanding.’ Year 2 teacher

50. Benefits for the school  ‘We are able to feed back to others techniques we find effective; as a result teaching within the school is more effective’ Y2 teacher and KS1 coordinator  ‘Children across the school are more verbal and staff have an understanding of the importance of talk ( if not the same level of skill as the focus group )’ FS coordinator

51. 2006200720082009 APS13.814.615.316.4 S&L (L2+) 84.392.296.698.3 Reading (L2b+) 62.771.472.283.1 Writing (L2b+) 43.158.444.483.1 Mathematic s (L2b+) 58.863.675.989.8

52.  We know that teachers’ knowledge of interaction patterns alone does not guarantee that the discourse patterns within classrooms will change. It is the combination of the knowledge about research into classroom discourse, the developing of pedagogical practice ( trying it out in my class in this school) and the opportunities for discussion with like minded colleagues and advisers/researchers which needs to be planned for over a significant period of time.