1. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 1 Thoughts on the 802.1AM PAR Notice: This document has been prepared to assist IEEE 802.11. It is offered as a basis for discussion and is not binding on the contributing individual(s) or organization(s). The material in this document is subject to change in form and content after further study. The contributor(s) reserve(s) the right to add, amend or withdraw material contained herein. Release: The contributor grants a free, irrevocable license to the IEEE to incorporate material contained in this contribution, and any modifications thereof, in the creation of an IEEE Standards publication; to copyright in the IEEE’s name any IEEE Standards publication even though it may include portions of this contribution; and at the IEEE’s sole discretion to permit others to reproduce in whole or in part the resulting IEEE Standards publication. The contributor also acknowledges and accepts that this contribution may be made public by IEEE 802.11. Patent Policy and Procedures: The contributor is familiar with the IEEE 802 Patent Policy and Procedures, including the statement "IEEE standards may include the known use of patent(s), including patent applications, provided the IEEE receives assurance from the patent holder or applicant with respect to patents essential for compliance with both mandatory and optional portions of the standard." Early disclosure to the Working Group of patent information that might be relevant to the standard is essential to reduce the possibility for delays in the development process and increase the likelihood that the draft publication will be approved for publication. Please notify the Chair as early as possible, in written or electronic form, if patented technology (or technology under patent application) might be incorporated into a draft standard being developed within the IEEE 802.11 Working Group. If you have questions, contact the IEEE Patent Committee Administrator at.http:// ieee802.org/guides/bylaws/sb-bylaws.pdfstuart.kerry@philips.compatcom@ieee.org Date: 2005-09-19 Authors:

2. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 2 Abstract “I've flown from one side of the network to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force that can control everything.”

3. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 3 The field is very broad A: not clear whether 802.1AM will address over-the-air mgmt or over-the-backhaul network mgmt, or both –poor scope definition in in the 802.1AM PAR B: Technical feasibility is greatly in question

4. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 4 Technical Feasibility over-the-air management over-the-backhaul network management

5. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 5 over-the-air "management” there is no common framework for over-the-air "management" between different RF technologies (within 802.11 let alone within 802) it is not viable bcus the devices operate in difference frequency bands using different modulation types and no single radio can (simultaneously) operate across all those bands/ modulation types. perhaps a SDR could perhaps do something in this regard by altering it's operational mode over time. But doing so on the fly is [today] impossible. –needs to be real-time to address temporal aspects of the issue

6. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 6 over-the-air "management” (cont’d) well, unless you have a universal wideband transceiver. maybe this is a "subspace" communication [vs. today’s "ether" space communications] and we don't know how to do that today –subspace communication would need to occur outside space and time; currently that is only science fiction hence my updated position is not that over-the-air "management” is impossible, but that the fundamental support technologies required to make it work don't yet exist.

7. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 7 over-the-backhaul network management there is no common framework for over-the-backhaul network management between different types of RF networks the backhaul networks are different types, and are not interconnected even if they were interconnected they are likely in different administrative domains –e.g. the hotel network is isolated from the 802 meeting net even if not isolated; which network has higher authority? –e.g. hotel net does what our network tells it to do or vice versa?

8. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 8 over-the-backhaul network management (cont’d) further, some RF network types have no backhaul component at all (e.g. 802.15 and 802.11 IBSS/ ad hoc networks)

9. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 9 Summary Feasibility remains in question –this is not addressed by the 802.1AM PAR –not yet responded to by 802.1 –therefore the question remains open could be addressed by a supporting document if space in the PAR document is unduly constrained Value proposition is also unclear –i.e. what is the value or benefit vs. the required effort?

10. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 10

11. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 11

12. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 12 Q & A Q: Is there a useful partial solution? –because RF is a shared medium, solving part of the problem essentially doesn't solve the problem –a partial solution would be like arranging things so you can be partially not pregnant I'm an optimist so I won't say that's impossible but any partial proposal should indicate how it will avoid the "9 month surprise"

13. doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r0 Submission Sept 2005 Darwin Engwer, NortelSlide 13 References 11-05-0892-01-0wng-dot1am-work-sizing.xls 11-05-0907-00-0wng-dot1am-management-plane.ppt 11-05-0908-00-0wng-dot1am-management-par-5c.doc