1. neutrino detector IA request Lines of thought first meeting on 24 August 2007 on- the fly notes by AB present: Alain Blondel, André Rubbia, Anselmo Cervera, Paul Soler Vittorio Palladino Also Invited: JE Campagne, Pasquale Migliozzi, Andreas Badertscher next meeting 10 september 10:00 am cern phone conference

2. 1. The concept of submitting a neutrino-IA was part of our discussions in the ISS and was well received by ECFA. 2. neutrinos and associated technologies are well known to the EU commissioner and to the contact person for particle physics (Daniel Pasini), in great part due to the important part played by neutrinos in the CERN council Strategy document(CSD). The EUROnu design study did extremely well and Laguna did very well. 3. In line with the CSD, the EU does not want to interfere with the choice of future facility (from SuperCNGS to betabeam or neutrino factory) and we should strive to emphasize the synergies between the projects and the fact that we are trying to find the best solution rather than support a priori a particular one.

3. 4. Integrated Infrastructure deals with, well,... infrastructures. Therefore we should expect to get support for infrastructure issues such as (some below are random ideas) -- test beam area, test magnet, common use electronics and detectors -- possibly a near detector test station on CNGS? -- common tools for simulations (beams, detectors, neutino interactions etc..) -- other infrastructure relevant for the development and construction of neutrino detectors, perhaps in conjunction with underground labs 5. There is another IA organization which is presently shaping up on LHC upgrade and certainly ECFA encouraged me to investigate the possibility to propose a big IA in collaboration with them rather than two smaller ones. To this effect I had a few conversations with Steinar Stapnes who is to be leading this effort on the LHC side --next one is tuesday 21 August. A similar merger has been taking place for accelerator R&D, with work packages in LHC, ILC, CLIC related technologies.

4. possible WPs Infrastructure for test beam (Emilio Radicioni, INFN Bari) needs: a large magnet i.e. H8 magnet DAQ, trigger, electronics, data storage hadron, muon and electron beams in energy range of oscillating neutrinos (0.5 to <~10 GeV) beam PID and spectrometer very different that LHC detector development challenges: high number of channels, cost per channel, mip availability: a few months per year neutrino beam? Gran Sasso off axis seems impossible (too large investment for only detector R&D) people are presently testing on NUMI beam at fermilab (0.5-20 GeV) and will test on T2K ND280 (lower energy, 0.5 – 5 GeV)

5. infrastructure for devices using light detection SiPM MPPCs Scintillator large areas PMTs and HPDs name deliverable: prototype a test water cherenkov module a test module for MIND or TASD Paul Soler Anselmo, Alfons Weber, A.Bravar, Graulich, Campagne and Stavros Katsanevas

6. silicon detectors for near detectors Paul Soler infrastructure for cryodetectors Liquid Argon (André Rubbia) infrastructure for emulsions detectors (not obvious) Pasquale and Giovanni di Lellis to elaborate low noise environment infrastructure (no) experimental magnet development infrastructure HighTc options low cost large volume options Passari – Elwyn Baynham magnetized iron

7. commercial companies -- photonis -- HPD's? -- SiPM firm in Geneva -- TA: access to test beam and infrastructures NA meeting of participants for useage of test beam definition of hybrid tests cost estimate of detectors and magnets recommend or comment on the use of specific techniques next meeting: 10am monday 10th september at cern or by phone.